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Sini #142577 12/22/17 08:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Sini
Boeing on the dole harms me in the following way:

1. Airplane tickets cost more, since due to lack of competition airlines have to pay more for airplanes
Airbus is a competitor, and from recent reports I've read, Airbus is even, or perhaps in the lead in the world market. Boeing has an advantage in the U S market because companies like Lockheed and McDonnell Douglas couldn't match Boeing successes

If Boeing is underselling their competitors, how does that make ticket costs go up? Airlines bought Boeing in this country because they offered the best value.
Quote

2. My taxes are higher, since these handouts come out taxed income.
You have a line item on your 1040 to pay for Boeing handouts? How odd.

Luckily, your taxes are probably lower now due to the recent legislation.

But really, I defy you to demonstrate how your taxes are any higher. Ex Im loans paid with interest earn money for the Treasury, and the pittance recieved in grants are nothing, and represent a sunk cost anyway. If not Boeing, the grants would be awarded regardless.

Quote

3. My earnings and savings are reduced by inflation, as these loans are printed money that increase inflation

How do loans that are repaid with interest drive up inflation?


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Sini #142578 12/22/17 09:04 PM
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The competition between Airbus and Boeing is intense, but it seems Airbus has a slight edge in market share.

Quote
Flight Global fleet forecasts 26,860 single aisle deliveries for a $1,360 Bn value at a compound annual growth rate of 5% for the 2016-2035 period, with a 45% market share for Airbus (12090), 43% for Boeing (11550), 5% for Bombardier Aerospace (1340), 4% for COMAC (1070) and 3% for Irkut Corporation (810) ;

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Competition_between_Airbus_and_Boeing

Last edited by Owain; 12/22/17 09:04 PM.

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Sini #142579 12/22/17 09:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Sini
Seeing how you gracefully conceded to being wrong on corporate taxes, lets move on to the next topic.


Stealth edit? How dishonest...

Where did I concede anything?


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Owain #142580 12/23/17 08:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Owain

Where did I concede anything?


I was sarcastic. You are absolutely incapable of admitting to being wrong even when faced with insurmountable evidence to the the contrary. They only time we move on with conversations when others get tired of winning. In this way you are like an NPC - designed to lose repeatedly. However, personally I prefer PvP against capable opponents and not PvE against Owain.


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Owain #142581 12/23/17 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Owain
Originally Posted by Sini
Boeing on the dole harms me in the following way:

1. Airplane tickets cost more, since due to lack of competition airlines have to pay more for airplanes
Airbus is a competitor, and from recent reports I've read, Airbus is even, or perhaps in the lead in the world market. Boeing has an advantage in the U S market because companies like Lockheed and McDonnell Douglas couldn't match Boeing successes


Airbus is heavily subsidized by EU. It should be telling that the only direct competitor is also on the dole.

A much better point to bring up would be that it is unlikely aircraft industry could survive in present international climate without subsidies. You can point to Australia's disappearing automotive market as a likely outcome of stopping subsidies.

Quote
You have a line item on your 1040 to pay for Boeing handouts? How odd.


I do, on line 78.

Quote
Quote
3. My earnings and savings are reduced by inflation, as these loans are printed money that increase inflation

How do loans that are repaid with interest drive up inflation?


If you have in a bank $10, but a loaf of bread costs go up from $1 to $1.50 overnight, while you still have $10 in the bank, now you can buy fewer loaves of bread.


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Sini #142584 12/23/17 09:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Sini
Originally Posted by Owain

Where did I concede anything?


I was sarcastic. You are absolutely incapable of admitting to being wrong even when faced with insurmountable evidence to the the contrary. They only time we move on with conversations when others get tired of winning. In this way you are like an NPC - designed to lose repeatedly. However, personally I prefer PvP against capable opponents and not PvE against Owain.

Insurmountable evidence that apparently exists only in your mind.

You made a big deal about Boeing, about the billions of dollars they are raking in in grants, but in the very link you offered, instead of billions in grants, they get instead something like $37 million a year.

Show of hands. Who knows the difference between billions (plural) and $37 million.

Apparently not Sini.

Then you try to make it out as being a horrible burden to the taxpayer that Boeing receives loans from the Ex Im bank. That they pay back. With interest. Earning the Treasury additional income.

I don't know about your PvP capabilities, but at this game, you suck.


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Owain ab Arawn
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Sini #142585 12/23/17 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Sini
Originally Posted by Owain
Originally Posted by Sini
Boeing on the dole harms me in the following way:

1. Airplane tickets cost more, since due to lack of competition airlines have to pay more for airplanes
Airbus is a competitor, and from recent reports I've read, Airbus is even, or perhaps in the lead in the world market. Boeing has an advantage in the U S market because companies like Lockheed and McDonnell Douglas couldn't match Boeing successes


Airbus is heavily subsidized by EU. It should be telling that the only direct competitor is also on the dole.

But doesn't that make your stupid whine about Boeing driving up the cost of tickets ridiculous. Boeing can't be abusing their terrible monopoly powers (which exist only in your mind) to overcharge airlines, because if they did the heavily subsidized Airbus would undercut them and erode Boeings market share even further. Instead, Boeing very successfully competes with the heavily subsidized Airbus based upon the merits of their products and services.

Quote
You have a line item on your 1040 to pay for Boeing handouts? How odd.

Quote

I do, on line 78.

Quantify the amount you pay extra in taxes as a result of Boeing operations. Show your work.

If you can't, then one can only presume you are now lying.

Quote
Quote
3. My earnings and savings are reduced by inflation, as these loans are printed money that increase inflation

How do loans that are repaid with interest drive up inflation?

Quote

If you have in a bank $10, but a loaf of bread costs go up from $1 to $1.50 overnight, while you still have $10 in the bank, now you can buy fewer loaves of bread.


This would be true if inflation were standing at 50%, but at the moment, it's only 1.7%, which is negligable, and has been very low for about a decade or so now.

https://data.bls.gov/timeseries/CUUR0000SA0L1E?output_view=pct_12mths

Inflation in 1974 stood at over 12%. Yes that sucked, but this is not 1974, and people who are ignorant of current inflation figures think that all they have to do is throw out the word INFLATION, and people will run screaming from the boogy man.

Every point you raise is just an example of someone desperately trying to claim victim status.

No, you are not a victim of Boeing raising ticket prices through non existent monopoly powers. That is pathetically stupid.

No, inflation is eating up neither your buying power nor the value of you savings or investment due to the Evil Boeing. Inflation is at historic lows, and has been for a decade.

No, your taxes are not going up because of Boeing paying off loans with interest.

In fact, if we can believe this article from the Washington Post from a few years ago, your taxes are amazingly low, which they use as a justification for raising taxes.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/04/11/your-taxes-are-really-low-in-one-chart/

The only thing you have demonstrated is that you are incredibly whiny, and desperate to be classified as a victim, somehow. Any how. By any argument, no matter how stupid.


Last edited by Owain; 12/23/17 09:43 AM.

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Owain ab Arawn
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Sini #142588 12/24/17 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Owain


You made a big deal about Boeing, about the billions of dollars they are raking in in grants, but in the very link you offered, instead of billions in grants, they get instead something like $37 million a year.

Show of hands. Who knows the difference between billions (plural) and $37 million.

Apparently not Sini.


Critical failure of your reading comprehension is NOT my problem. Re-read links. Google yourself if you don't like the links I provided. Boeing received BILLIONS in subsidies and handouts. This is on top of BILLIONS of government loans. This is NOT how free and open market supposed to work.

Also:

Originally Posted by Sini

It amazes me how much of your pride you are willing to swallow to defend Trump. You are trying to argue here that bailouts and handouts are a good thing. What kind of a conservative are you?



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Owain #142589 12/24/17 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Owain
Originally Posted by Sini
Originally Posted by Owain
Originally Posted by Sini
Boeing on the dole harms me in the following way:

1. Airplane tickets cost more, since due to lack of competition airlines have to pay more for airplanes
Airbus is a competitor, and from recent reports I've read, Airbus is even, or perhaps in the lead in the world market. Boeing has an advantage in the U S market because companies like Lockheed and McDonnell Douglas couldn't match Boeing successes


Airbus is heavily subsidized by EU. It should be telling that the only direct competitor is also on the dole.

But doesn't that make your stupid whine about Boeing driving up the cost of tickets ridiculous. Boeing can't be abusing their terrible monopoly powers (which exist only in your mind) to overcharge airlines, because if they did the heavily subsidized Airbus would undercut them and erode Boeings market share even further. Instead, Boeing very successfully competes with the heavily subsidized Airbus based upon the merits of their products and services.


This is nonsense. Lack of competition due to few entrenched players on the government dole is book definition of unfree markets. Economics 101.


Quote
Quote
You have a line item on your 1040 to pay for Boeing handouts? How odd.

Quote

I do, on line 78.

Quantify the amount you pay extra in taxes as a result of Boeing operations. Show your work.


This is nonsense, as we are not arguing about specific amount, instead we are discussing this categorically. You are escalating standard of proof well into absurd territory.



Quote
Quote
Quote
3. My earnings and savings are reduced by inflation, as these loans are printed money that increase inflation

How do loans that are repaid with interest drive up inflation?

Quote

If you have in a bank $10, but a loaf of bread costs go up from $1 to $1.50 overnight, while you still have $10 in the bank, now you can buy fewer loaves of bread.


This would be true if inflation were standing at 50%, but at the moment, it's only 1.7%, which is negligable, and has been very low for about a decade or so now.


Government inflation measurements are meaningless, real purchasing power decrease is about 5% a year. The way the measured inflation during 70s and today are different.

See: http://www.shadowstats.com/alternate_data/inflation-charts


Quote
Every point you raise is just an example of someone desperately trying to claim victim status.


This is again nonsense. You repeatedly asked me via direct question about this.


Quote
No, you are not a victim of Boeing raising ticket prices through non existent monopoly powers. That is pathetically stupid.

No, inflation is eating up neither your buying power nor the value of you savings or investment due to the Evil Boeing. Inflation is at historic lows, and has been for a decade.

No, your taxes are not going up because of Boeing paying off loans with interest.


Yes they are. Now what?

Quote
The only thing you have demonstrated is that you are incredibly whiny, and desperate to be classified as a victim, somehow. Any how. By any argument, no matter how stupid.


This line of attack would have worked much better if you didn't repeatedly badger me with side questions. What is truly and mind-bogglingly stupid is you selling your values down the river to support Trump. Two years ago you could pass for a conservative. Today, you are deficit-cheering, big government bailouts approving, constitution desecrating Trumpster. Not even a RINO or CINO, worse - a reactionary neocon of the worst kind.

Rethink how you live your life.


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Sini #142591 12/24/17 02:21 PM
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Sini, I didn't choose Boeing to be the hill you die on. You did that all by yourself.

If your ego wont permit you to admit you are wrong, that doesn't bother me a bit. So I'll just leave you go weep quietly (or maybe not quietly) over imagined crippling air fares that no one else seems to be worried about (at least not as it pertains to Boeing), taxes that are now reduced, and low inflation that is of concern to no one but you.

Life is just going to suck for you, because I don't see any of that changing any time soon, because no one cares but deranged lefties.

Last edited by Owain; 12/24/17 06:06 PM.

To the everlasting glory of the infantry...

Owain ab Arawn
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