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Sini #142556 12/22/17 01:04 PM
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Sini #142557 12/22/17 01:18 PM
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People who disagree with his policies won't like his policies.

What is your point? People who support his policies elected him to do those things, near as I can see, especially the ones that restrict immigration from countries that pose a threat to the American people.


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Owain #142558 12/22/17 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Owain
Originally Posted by Sini
Attempt to reframe argument denied. Stick to your original point - taxation of corporations is taking away their money. I clearly shown that "their money" is often the same thing as "taxpayer's money". As such, there is nothing inherently unjust in taxation of corporations.

As to source: http://www.goodjobsfirst.org/sites/default/files/docs/pdf/UncleSamsFavoriteCorporations.pdf See Table 7.



I have yet to see a source for your allegation. Like your 50% of no bid contracts post, I suspect this is more nonsense pulled out of your ass.

Edit: Checking your link now.

In the meantime, you still haven't answered my question about your 50% no bid contract bullshit.


Refraining of discussion denied.

Have you read the link? Have you seen BILLIONS of taxpayers money going to corporations? Do you have any questions or disagreements on presented sources?

Therefore, your point on taxation of corporations is invalid. It isn't their money. No more than your available credit card balance and welfare check is your earnings.


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Sini #142559 12/22/17 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Sini

Have you seen BILLIONS of taxpayers money going to corporations?

Not exactly. With respect to Boeing, the company that most drew your ire, I responded above. The thread has been active, so you need to back up a page or so.

Loans from the import export bank that are repaid do not take taxpayers money. Loans that are paid off add money to the treasury, so your point there is invalid.

Even so, did you ever figure out if Boeing is operating in the red, or is making billions? It can't be both.

Last edited by Owain; 12/22/17 04:44 PM.

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Goriom #142560 12/22/17 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Goriom
Say facepalm it facepalm with facepalm me facepalm ISP's facepalm are facepalm monopolies facepalm due facepalm to facepalm the facepalm high facepalm cost facepalm barrier facepalm into facepalm the facepalm market.


It is even worse than that. ISPs collected Government funds to build up infrastructure, purchased state and municipal legislation making it impossible for anyone else to create alternative last mile, and are now trying to corral everyone into walled gardens. Insofar as data connection, US is a through and through third-world banana republic.


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Owain #142561 12/22/17 04:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Owain
Loans from the import export bank that are repaid do not take taxpayers money.


This is categorically not true. To issue these almost interest-free loans, government prints money. This devalues everyone else money. You can visualize it the following way - to lend 10 Bil at 0.5% government steals 1c from everyone, and we never get it back.

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Even so, did you ever figure out if Boeing is operating in the red, or is making billions? It can't be both.

It can be both. Boeing is making billions because of government loans, grants, and government contracts. Take away that and they will be deeply in red.


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Sini #142562 12/22/17 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Sini
Originally Posted by Owain
Loans from the import export bank that are repaid do not take taxpayers money.


This is categorically not true. To issue these almost interest-free loans, government prints money. This devalues everyone else money. You can visualize it the following way - to lend 10 Bil at 0.5% government steals 1c from everyone, and we never get it back.

Upon what basis do you claim that the loans are almost interest free.

Show your work, please.


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Even so, did you ever figure out if Boeing is operating in the red, or is making billions? It can't be both.

Quote
It can be both. Boeing is making billions because of government loans, grants, and government contracts. Take away that and they will be deeply in red.

Not on the basis of loans through the Ex Im bank. But your source does not state that Boeing makes billions from grants.

Originally Posted by Sini
Boeing received $457 million in grants ... from 2000 to 2014.

That works out to $32.6 per year. Not exactly billions by a large measure.

Further, how does Boeing make billions upon loans that are paid back, with interest?

With respect to contracts, if Boeing supplies the government with necessary weapon systems at a cost negotiated to the mutual advantage of both the government and Boeing, where is the problem with that? The government needs to acquire weapons system from someone, and if through a competitive process, Boeing offers the government the best value for the dollar, that is beneficial.



Last edited by Owain; 12/22/17 05:00 PM.

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Owain #142563 12/22/17 07:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Owain
Originally Posted by Sini
Originally Posted by Owain
Loans from the import export bank that are repaid do not take taxpayers money.


This is categorically not true. To issue these almost interest-free loans, government prints money. This devalues everyone else money. You can visualize it the following way - to lend 10 Bil at 0.5% government steals 1c from everyone, and we never get it back.

Upon what basis do you claim that the loans are almost interest free.


These loans are usually made at a prime rate. Up until very recently prime rate has been nearly zero.

It amazes me how much of your pride you are willing to swallow to defend Trump. You are trying to argue here that bailouts and handouts are a good thing. What kind of a conservative are you?


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Sini #142564 12/22/17 07:25 PM
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Do you have a source for that opinion?


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Owain #142565 12/22/17 07:26 PM
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The United States of subsidies: The biggest corporate winners in each state

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Some big corporations are also big double- and triple-dippers in federal and state funds.

Five corporations have achieved a trifecta, ranking among the 50 largest recipients of three kinds of funds: state subsidies; federal grants and tax credits; and federal loans, loan guarantees and bailout assistance. Those businesses are Boeing, Ford Motor, General Electric, General Motors and JPMorgan Chase.


Read the graph - Boeing $13.4B in subsidies.


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