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The KGB Oracle Forums General Public Discussion (SPECIAL ACCESS) KGB Political Debate Central Worse than guns?

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Re: Worse than guns Kaotic #112452 01/07/13 08:06 PM
Joined: Jan 2006 Posts: 5,528 Likes: 10 Sini KGB Supreme Court Justice KGB Paladin King's High Council
Sini KGB Supreme Court Justice KGB Paladin King's High Council Joined: Jan 2006 Posts: 5,528 Likes: 10	Originally Posted By: Kaotic Originally Posted By: sini Problem with these kinds of opinions is that they are baseless speculation. As opposed to the scientific evidence you have showing that guns cause murders? I never said guns cause murders, guns are used in murders. Access to guns make would-be murderers more deadly. Access to guns make it more likely for a violence to turn into murder. Access to certain types of guns make everyone around these guns less safe.

Re: Worse than guns Wolfgang #112454 01/07/13 08:15 PM
Joined: Jan 2006 Posts: 5,528 Likes: 10 Sini KGB Supreme Court Justice KGB Paladin King's High Council
Sini KGB Supreme Court Justice KGB Paladin King's High Council Joined: Jan 2006 Posts: 5,528 Likes: 10	Originally Posted By: Wolfgang You must have forgotten about the Massacre in Norway where the guy killed 87 people because he was the only one with a gun. We have been over this in the gun thread. Places where mentally unstable people can get hands on lots of guns end up with all kinds of shooting sprees. More, deadlier guns with less accountability, checks and tracking end up with more guns falling into the hands of unstable individuals. If your goal is to decrease number of shooting sprees - then more guns for everyone is absolutely wrong approach, because it gets more guns into the hands of unstable individuals. Less guns for everyone would work. Less deadly guns for everyone would work but not as well. Stricter control over who can get guns, and making people responsible for not securing them would also work, but again, not as well. Recent school shooting? Mentally ill kid may have pulled the trigger, medication (or home schooling) might have played a role. Who is responsible? Individual who failed to secure an arsenal of these fucking guns. Why the fuck do you leave an armory-worth of guns lying around accessible to a nutter kid?!

Re: Worse than guns Sini #112459 01/07/13 08:37 PM
Joined: May 2009 Posts: 3,174 Likes: 1 Oklahoma Wolfgang KGB Supreme Knight
Wolfgang KGB Supreme Knight Joined: May 2009 Posts: 3,174 Likes: 1 Oklahoma	Originally Posted By: sini Originally Posted By: Wolfgang You must have forgotten about the Massacre in Norway where the guy killed 87 people because he was the only one with a gun. We have been over this in the gun thread. Places where mentally unstable people can get hands on lots of guns end up with all kinds of shooting sprees. More, deadlier guns with less accountability, checks and tracking end up with more guns falling into the hands of unstable individuals. If your goal is to decrease number of shooting sprees - then more guns for everyone is absolutely wrong approach, because it gets more guns into the hands of unstable individuals. Less guns for everyone would work. Less deadly guns for everyone would work but not as well. Stricter control over who can get guns, and making people responsible for not securing them would also work, but again, not as well. Recent school shooting? Mentally ill kid may have pulled the trigger, medication (or home schooling) might have played a role. Who is responsible? Individual who failed to secure an arsenal of these fucking guns. Why the fuck do you leave an armory-worth of guns lying around accessible to a nutter kid?! Looks like the mother wasn't thinking. If you have someone that's unstable you don't leave guns laying around. You lock them, they have these new things called gun safe's. Nobody can get to those guns if you have them locked up. As long as that person doesn't have a key or know the code. But I still don't lay all the blame on his mother, ultimately he was the one that pulled the trigger.

Re: Worse than guns Sini #112464 01/07/13 09:02 PM
Joined: May 2008 Posts: 3,716 Lafayette, LA Kaotic OP KGB Supreme Knight King's High Council
OP Kaotic KGB Supreme Knight King's High Council Joined: May 2008 Posts: 3,716 Lafayette, LA	Originally Posted By: sini I never said guns cause murders, guns are used in murders. Access to guns make would-be murderers more deadly. Access to guns make it more likely for a violence to turn into murder. Access to certain types of guns make everyone around these guns less safe. And a sane person with a gun in the area of a nut with a gun can render the nut harmless in fairly short order.

Re: Worse than guns Kaotic #112465 01/07/13 09:18 PM
Joined: Jan 2006 Posts: 5,528 Likes: 10 Sini KGB Supreme Court Justice KGB Paladin King's High Council
Sini KGB Supreme Court Justice KGB Paladin King's High Council Joined: Jan 2006 Posts: 5,528 Likes: 10	Originally Posted By: Kaotic a person with a gun in the area of a person with a gun can render the person harmless in fairly short order. So you arm everyone, including nuts, and have regular shoot-outs with tons of casualties, including children. This is where we are today. Some of us think that mass shootings need to go.

Re: Worse than guns Sini #112466 01/07/13 09:23 PM
Joined: May 2008 Posts: 3,716 Lafayette, LA Kaotic OP KGB Supreme Knight King's High Council
OP Kaotic KGB Supreme Knight King's High Council Joined: May 2008 Posts: 3,716 Lafayette, LA	Originally Posted By: sini So you arm everyone, including nuts, and have regular shoot-outs with tons of casualties, including children. This is where we are today. Some of us think that mass shootings need to go. Really? We have regular shoot-outs with tons of casualties? I thought we had an occasional outbreak of lunatics who had access to firearms that they eventually turned on themselves. Guess we live in different worlds. 'Course that's not really news, is it?

Re: Worse than guns Sini #112468 01/07/13 10:30 PM
Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 4,653 Likes: 6 Derid Chief Justice KGB Supreme Court
Derid Chief Justice KGB Supreme Court Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 4,653 Likes: 6	Originally Posted By: sini Originally Posted By: Kaotic Originally Posted By: sini Problem with these kinds of opinions is that they are baseless speculation. As opposed to the scientific evidence you have showing that guns cause murders? I never said guns cause murders, guns are used in murders. Access to guns make would-be murderers more deadly. Access to guns make it more likely for a violence to turn into murder. Access to certain types of guns make everyone around these guns less safe. Your religion is interfering with your higher reasoning again. For who could be free when every other man's humour might domineer over him? - John Locke (2nd Treatise, sect 57)

Re: Worse than guns Derid #112474 01/08/13 07:34 AM
Joined: Jan 2006 Posts: 5,528 Likes: 10 Sini KGB Supreme Court Justice KGB Paladin King's High Council
Sini KGB Supreme Court Justice KGB Paladin King's High Council Joined: Jan 2006 Posts: 5,528 Likes: 10	Originally Posted By: Derid Your religion is interfering with your higher reasoning again. Would that be the church of Not Unquestionably Worshiping the Guns?

Re: Worse than guns Sini #112533 01/09/13 07:24 AM
Joined: Jun 2008 Posts: 355 queens, NY Stubs KGB High Knight
Stubs KGB High Knight Joined: Jun 2008 Posts: 355 queens, NY	Originally Posted By: sini Come out and say already what is exactly you are trying to not say. Guns, kinds that enable you to kill multiple people in a short order, were used to cause tragedy. You are trying to insinuate that something else is to blame. So what is that "something else" is? Stop hiding behind ambiguity and let it all hang. Come out and say it already. Do you realize that, unless were referring to muzzle loaded pistols and rifles, any gun today can kill multiple people in short order. I don't own a gun, mostly because I live in one of the bluest, liberal, pansy cities on this country when it comes to gun laws. However, what I believe Kaotic is saying with this article is that you can't blame any one thing, guns least of all. STUBS!

Re: Worse than guns Stubs #112540 01/09/13 08:57 AM
Joined: May 2008 Posts: 3,716 Lafayette, LA Kaotic OP KGB Supreme Knight King's High Council
OP Kaotic KGB Supreme Knight King's High Council Joined: May 2008 Posts: 3,716 Lafayette, LA	That's pretty darn close there Stubsy. I was merely pointing out that there are many ideas for the root cause of these massacres. This article just made an interesting correlation between mental illness/pharmaceuticals and the people who commit these atrocities. It turned out to be a bonus that the discussion highlighted Sini's ideological resistance to anything that does not toe the lefty line. I don't know if this guy is right, but he makes good sense and I'm willing to consider it. Sini, on the other hand, completely dismisses the article because it doesn't fit his paradigm of "guns are bad, mkay."

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