The KGB Oracle Forums General Public Discussion (SPECIAL ACCESS) KGB Political Debate Central Fiscal Cliff

AAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH You really are a boob aren't you? Next time you retreat to Latin to try and make yourself sound intelligent you might want to look up the words before you use them.

Now, be a good little boy and go look up the financial woes of Zimbabwe and the Wiemar republic. There are several more examples of what happens when governments print money willy nilly, but these two should get you started.

Paying down the debt is pretty much the most uncontroversial position in the nation. The real questions are:

1) Who bears the burden (middle class, upper class, seniors, etc)

2) When you do it. Traditional economics say you pay when times are good, go into debt during the bad times. Pretty much the opposite of what we've been doing the last several years.

3) Aggressiveness. Do you risk a recession during shaky economic times when we are in no danger of defaulting? Or take things easy?

Answer these, then we can't get into the nastiness of specific policy.

"the most uncontroversial position in the nation"

Depends on whom is viewing it.

From the non-elected side of things, absolutely. This is just common sense to us.

From the governments point of view ? Limiting their spending is ludicrous and treasonous ! Does the government even bother with a budget anymore ?

Raging against education again? I don't understand why would Conservatism position itself as anti-intellectual, but it does not suits you.

As to translation and explanation (because Google is too hard for Kaotic) - your attack does not follow. We are discussing differences between government and household budgets, and you went on raving rant about fiat currency. These are entirely different arguments - as such does not follow is appropriate response.

Spending cuts would be #4. Current spending level is undeniably too high for the level of tax revenue collected. We all like everything, all the time, at the same time - most practical solution is to cut what possible, and make up the rest with tax increases. Unfortunately meaningful cuts (e.g. defense) are political non-starter and most harmful cuts (e.g. social safety nets) are politically fetishized.

As to answers - nobody going to sign up constituents (and re-election prospects) for #1; and unfortunately #2 and #3 are used as a weapon to manipulate #1.

Here, I'll post it again for you since you have such trouble reading.

You're the one who brought up monopoly money (i.e. fiat currency). So, if you want to wave your arms in the air and declare someone has responded with an illogical argument, then you're pointing at yourself. I merely responded what you said and pointed out that you can't see why that is a problem. I'm seriously thinking about getting you a copy of Rosetta Stone English so you can work all this out for yourself.

I brought up fiat currency as an example of household vs. government budget differences, you latched on this comparison and started ranting about fiat currency, plus misrepresented my comparison as an evidence of support.

Your argument really has nothing to do with what was discussed in this topic. As such you ether a) did not understand what is being discussed here b) intentionally decided to derail discussion into confrontation. In ether case - non sequitur.

Fiscal Cliff Deal



I am personally disappointed with this outcome. I have seen Fiscal Cliff as the only way to meaningfully trim defense spending. Now it will unlikely to happen and I don't have to explain how we cannot afford to spend so much on defense.

Next - Debt limit increase negotiations and very likely default and another downgrade. This might (should, if markets were rational) increase cost of debt and would make reaching balanced budget much harder (more money spent just paying interest).

rant/ At the same time, I won't be shorting US bonds. In my mind we are clearly into Japan-like illogical financial twilight zone. Just another example where market fails to rationally respond to the situation. Tulips all the way down. /rant

I dont think anyone is particularly happy about how it turned out. Some of us saw it coming though.

There is rarely incentive to stop freely spending other peoples' money.

The only shot we have at spending decreases will be with the Debt Ceiling bill.

Since they didn't get it in the Fiscal Cliff bill, I will be willing to bet the debt ceiling will go NOWHERE without language that seriously cuts spending.

They cannot possibly argue raising the ceiling without also introducing some serious cuts. Otherwise, why have a debt ceiling at all ?