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You can't privatize Police or the Fire Department. Why the hell would you want to do it with Healthcare? People's health is not conducive to private industry.

Here is an important story from CBS's 60 minutes about the dark side of this subject:

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=50136261n

Curious about your take on this.


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Police and Fire can be privatized, hell they almost already are being Unionized. BTW Police and Fire are not state or federal programs, Healthcare is being made a federal program.
I can make a news story about the dark side of anything.
Healthcare has been privatized since the beginning of health care.

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I take it you did watch. This is about compaines bilking the fed out of money by making demands for admission into hospitals to make more money.

Health care and capitalism don't mix is my point. Imagine if you forgot to pay your fire department bill or could not afford it, and there was a fire? What if you didn't pay your police bill and your got kidnapped? It just doesn't make sense in this context. Almost everything else does, but not this.


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Well they can mix if done right. I use private health insurance and it works fine for me. So please tell me what
I am doing wrong.

You are advocating taking a working industry and making it a
federal industry.

The federal system will force people to carry insurance whether they wish to or not.

The federal system will force people who cant afford to pay for it to pay for it or risk a fine that cost as much as the premium.

You example of using fire and police is not even close to what the issues are so please stop.

My local taxes pay for fire and police. My state taxes pay for state police. My federal taxes pay for federal law enforcement.

Now you want me to use more federal tax, its a tax if you are forced to pay it, to pay for health care which one side says it will cost me the same and the other says it will cost me more.

In the words of your hero,we have to pass it to know what's in it, turns into we have to pass it to know how much its gonna cost you to pay for it.

You will be hard pressed to convince me that the Federal Government taking over any industry is a good idea.

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On a similar note, just look what happened with airport security post TSA. Now imagine that in the health care system.

Jet you and 60m are right about one thing regarding companies bilking the feds for cash. But what liberals should really consider, is the fact that this happens due to lack of competency and efficiency on the part of the FedGov. FedGov is never responsive to much of anything, its a ponderous monstrosity in all that it does.

Just imagine how much crappier everything will run, once those same bureaucrats have even more power.


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Originally Posted By: Helemoto
In the words of your hero,we have to pass it to know what's in it, turns into we have to pass it to know how much its gonna cost you to pay for it.


[suicide]


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You guys amaze me. Medicare is a working federal run insurance program. It is your private companies that are BILKING it. Did any of you watch the 60 minutes piece? How would you address this type of fraud?


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If by working, you mean working hard at bankrupting the whole country then yes.

Type of fraud addressed by getting govt out of the business of micromanaging health care.

Federal level Govt is not competent enough to be trusted with anything that is not absolutely required they be trusted with - like military.

Get the Fed out of the business of screwing things up for all of us, and let still imperfect but more accountable and responsive State and local govts deal with things. The States that are successful at finding solutions that work will grow and attract people and capital and the rest will work to emulate what works.

As the FedGov gains ever more power and spends ever more money, and the quality of life and society in this country continues declining in parallel - I never cease to be amazed at people who argue that the solution is even MORE FedGov power and involvement.

Point of diminishing returns of FedGov involvement was reached decades ago, point of negative returns of FedGov involvement was reached in Clinton era. Everything after Clinton has been all to the worse, and downhill.


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Originally Posted By: Derid
If by working, you mean working hard at bankrupting the whole country then yes.

Type of fraud addressed by getting govt out of the business of micromanaging health care.

Federal level Govt is not competent enough to be trusted with anything that is not absolutely required they be trusted with - like military.

Get the Fed out of the business of screwing things up for all of us, and let still imperfect but more accountable and responsive State and local govts deal with things. The States that are successful at finding solutions that work will grow and attract people and capital and the rest will work to emulate what works.

As the FedGov gains ever more power and spends ever more money, and the quality of life and society in this country continues declining in parallel - I never cease to be amazed at people who argue that the solution is even MORE FedGov power and involvement.

Point of diminishing returns of FedGov involvement was reached decades ago, point of negative returns of FedGov involvement was reached in Clinton era. Everything after Clinton has been all to the worse, and downhill.


To be honest, it is really an end of life issue. That is the most expansive part of senior care. I for one am not a fan of hanging old people out to dry after giving them a promise that they were being taken care of. I have been paying into Medicare and Social Security for 31 years and I also have an expectation of getting something back.

I know you guys are not fans of the facts, but the US ranks 36th worldwide in healthcare. All of the top 10 are state run systems with some private options.

Originally Posted By: BusinessWeek Ranking
10 - Japan
Expenditure per capita rank: 13
Health insurance in Japan is mandatory, either through an employer-based system or through the national health care program.
Source: World Health Report 2000
9 - Austria
Expenditure per capita rank: 6
Austrian citizens and residents enjoy free access to basic health care, as do as tourists and people staying in Austria on a temporary basis. Everyone must pay into the system, levels of payment determined by an individual's income.
Source: World Health Report 2000
8 - Oman
Wikimedia Commons
Expenditure per capita rank: 62
Oman's health care system is largely based on local districts, with universal health care offered to all citizens and to all expatriates working in the public sector.
Source: World Health Report 2000
7 - Spain
Jasper Juinen/Getty Images
Expenditure per capita rank: 24
Spain guarantees universal coverage in its constitution and there are no out-of-pocket expenses — aside from prescription drugs.
Source: World Health Report 2000
6 - Singapore
Expenditure per capita rank: 38
A government-run universal health care system coexists with a private sector in Singapore. The private sector provides most care while the government controls prices.
Source: World Health Report 2000
5 - Malta
Expenditure per capita rank: 37
The Malta system is funded by general taxation through weekly national insurance contributions and offers free coverage for all.
Source: World Health Report 2000
4 - Andorra
Expenditure per capita rank: 23
The Andorra system is very similar to the French system. Run by the government, funds are provided by employees and employers. Only about 8% of citizens do not participate in the state-run system.
Source: World Health Report 2000
3 - San Marino
Expenditure per capita rank: 21
San Marino is home to a compulsory, state-funded healthcare system with the option for private coverage.
Source: World Health Report 2000
2 - Italy
Expenditure per capita rank: 11
Italy provides universal health care to the whole population with the 20 regions exercising control and the central government providing regulatory assistance.
Source: World Health Report 2000
1 - France
Expenditure per capita rank: 4
The French system combines private and public sectors to provide universal health coverage to all. Most citizens receive their insurance through their employer and almost everyone has supplemental private insurance. The majority of medical bills are paid for by the government (funds from payroll and income taxes) and the remainder is footed by individual's supplemental private insurance.
Source: World Health Report 2000


But again, I know how you guys are with facts. The answer to me and the other 36 countries is simple and proven. You guys are just WRONG.


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By what metrics. Most rankings I have seen regarding healthcare, used amount of govt control as a primary criteria for a rank. The UN one in particular.

Not going to be impressed by a ranking that ranks based on level of govt in health care.


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