The KGB Oracle Forums General Public Discussion (SPECIAL ACCESS) KGB Political Debate Central teachers unions

i dont view colombus as a brutal tyrant in the context of his times. by our standards, of course.

im curious; how do you decide whether both sides should be taught (colombus) or not (evolution)?

please dont say one is provable. i just want to know what criteria you use to determine it

In my opinion, creationism is not science. The basics of evolution are proven scientific facts. If someone can prove that God exists, then I believe it should be taught. We can prove survival of the fittest, and cellular mutation.

That is where I draw the line.

And that's the problem, do you really think it's easier to change a standard or fix a problem with someone in Washington? Rather than someone that's in state and has better knowledge of a situation and has closer ties? You cut out a middle man. It's far easier to change something that's enforced locally than one that is enforced federally. You seem to think the Federal Government is the way to fix everything.

I think if it weren't FOR the people there wouldn't be any Government. You seem to think if it weren't for the Government there wouldn't be any people. Think about that one!

Frankly as I said, I just dont trust some states to stick with the founding ideals of this country and the constitution. I would be afraid that the individual states would start teaching to much religion. For instance, Utah would be all Mormon in my opinion, and in my opinion, public schools should offer a standard education.

If the States did things that were unconstitutional then the FedGov can always reign them in. There is a huge difference between FedGov that acts as a simple check on the States to keep them within the confines of Constitutional Law, and a FedGov that feels the need to centrally manage and control.

Besides that, if you don't like the schools in the state where you live, you can always leave. People move to get to better schools all the time.

But the bigger picture is that if the states are the ones making the educational rules, then the citizens of those states should logically have much more input into those rules than they have currently.

Yes, input like MORE BIBLE LESS SCIENCE.

No, "leave it if you don't like it" is not a good argument. Where would be our founding fathers if they followed your advice?

While I'm no teacher, my other half was one for sixteen years. ( Special Education prek - 5th grade )

As a result, I have some unique insights on the issue and, of course, some opinions :D

For starters, I can fully understand the Chicago strike. Just one of the reasons would make me quit the entire field and look elsewhere for a job.

That reason being teacher pay being tied to student performance on standardized tests. Bad, Bad, BAD idea all the way around. Why, I hear you ask ?

Easy. Because not all schools are equal. You can't standardize the tests without dumbing them down to the least common denominator. Not really the kids ( or the teachers ) fault really, some schools are not financially capable of providing the same level ( or even access to ) the same subjects. Eg, the rural school in the middle of nowhere is not going to have the same operational budget as richer regions will. How on Earth can you possibly expect the kids to perform the same on a standardized test if they don't even get exposure to the same information ?

Because, lets face it, some kids just flat out do not give a shit about school. These same !give-a-shits are lumped together in the same classrooms as those that do. As a result, they drag the entire class down with them. It only takes a single disruptive idiot to ruin it for everyone.

Go ahead, try to kick them out of class.

The district will get hit with a lawsuit so fast your head will simply spin right off. Districts know lawsuits costs $$$ so they usually do anything they can to avoid them. Including telling said teacher of said !not-give-a-shit student to " deal with it ".

It's sad really.


Now, lets talk about this whole " It's the teachers fault my little angel can't pass the test " issue.

No. It isn't. You can place blame in two places here, but the teachers are not an option.

First one is at the district level. These are the folks who come up with the curriculum the teachers will be required to follow. Teachers do NOT get to decide what they're going to teach, it's dictated to them.

Since federal money is tied into student performance on the aforementioned standardized tests, guess what the curriculum is tailored to ? Yup, teaching the test. It's in their best interests the kiddos do well on the test because it equates to more money for the district. Care to guess why so many are getting caught cheating on these tests these days ? Money is a damned powerful motivator.

The other potential problem area is the lovely little angels themselves. The kids. Like I said before. Some really do not give a shit about their education. Since the teachers have no say-so in what students they teach, the more kids that don't give a damn equates to lower teacher pay. This leads to simply being unable to find teachers to teach at all in certain regions of the country where the majority of kiddos don't give two shits about anything. They'll all fight for the nicer districts and better student populations.

Some teachers try a hybrid approach to teach. Trying their damdest to reach the ones that want to learn while getting the material out there for the rest and ignoring the idiots who are destined to flip burgers forever. Of course, when burger-flipper jr fails the standardized tests, it MUST be the teachers fault. Because everyone knows that all children are geniuses and will all grow up to be doctors, lawyers and the like. :|

I assure you it isn't the teachers decision to spend 100 MILLION dollars to update the GD Football Stadium, Sports Complex and the like. Then the district has the BALLS to ask for a tax increase so they can build ( insert token think of the children program here ).

Assholes. :|

Hell, where I live the High School retention rate is around the fifty percent ( 50% ) mark. Nearly one HALF of the kids that start High School don't even finish. We do have one snazzy ass brand new football stadium though :|

The union here in Texas is relatively useless. To be honest, education as a career is not recommended for anyone if you want my opinion as to where it's headed. My other half just flat gave it up. Not worth it anymore. Not at all.

She is now back in college doing the BSN program ( BA Nursing ). She gets to sit in class with the recent high school grads who look like deer in the headlights in most of her classes. Folks turning in test scores of 12 and 32 ( that's a f*cking TWELVE out of a hundred ) in Micro-Biology. According to her, most of her classes are the same. The only ones who do well are foreign students, older students, or the rare ones who understand what it takes to actually pass the class.

I hate to say this but, unless a serious change happens to the American Public Education system, the next generation of graduates will go on record as the least educated in history.

Um, they left the British empire...