The KGB Oracle Forums General Public Discussion (PUBLIC) The Pub Best Speech You Will Ever Hear

it's been six months that I became vegan, and I'm trying to bring more arguments to bring more friends to this lifestyle change.

I found an incredible video to take the veil on the subject.
If anyone here know about Plato's "Allegory of the Cave" and then after seeing all video compare to the allegory.


If anyone wants to comment on, at least do me big a favor, watch the whole video and not just a few minutes and I will try to argue.

I'ts a long video, but it is worth of the time watching, for your health, for the planet, for us.

Well, I did watch the video... yes the whole thing.

I did find it disturbing.. but not because I can find much if any agreement with , but rather that people can actually buy his arguments and incite themselves to extreme actions on behalf of said arguments.

First of all, pigs and cows are not my brothers.

Second of all, omnivore means eating both.. noone ever argued that humans are straight carnivores but he used the fact that humans have some herbivore traits and lack some traits held by pure carnivores that humans arent omnivores.

Thirdly, I see no justification for abandoning human interest for animal interest where the two collide. Because, pigs are in fact not our brothers. This guy talks like self interest is a bad thing. Its really just a faux moralism. Perhaps he does not have the moral courage to address real problems plaguing humans, or maybe he just hates his fellow man and so spends his life advocating nonhuman interests.

Now, dont get me wrong. If someone wants to not eat meat or etc, then by all means. Its your choice what you do, and I have no quarrel with people who live the way they see fit. I have some RL vegan friends.

But people like this, who are willing to perform violence on their fellow man and use force to further his philosophy of anti-humanism just make me sick to me stomach. I have no sympathy for people like this, who would crush the livliehoods of fellow men to satisfy his own desire for self righteousness, especially for such incomprehensible reasons.

I could go on at length, but basically I consider people like this and PETA types in general to simply be self-rationalizing tin-can faux moralist positions for their own self-aggrandizement.

Ok, thanks for watching it all.
I'm going to argue with you later all your points.

You're all right, they are our brothers, they aren't our equals, they are animals, and animals can be property and like property they can be explored to the bone. You are missing one of the many video speech messages that guy is trying to pass, we are conditioned since child to eat meat, milk and use animals for sport and other uses etc. Moral question is this kind of exploitation valid? Some people think it's not, like the abolicionists in the past that tried to argue about slavery, some people try to argue about our current specism, like many “ism” nazism,sexism.




It's an argument used by many vegetarians, it's true that you can have almost a health life eating meat and vegetables, even eating only meat we see people living to the old age. But dont get stuck to this argument, you can have a health life without meat or dairy products too. The real question is the moral question of inflict unecessary pain to animals.




Again, you still trying to justifying saying that animals are not “our brothers”, yes they are inferior to us, so by the logic they can be explored and exploited. Above all meat and dairy products are real problems, earth problems, the amount of land need to feed animals, because we need grains to feed those animals is huge, I know that to have 1kg of meat you need feed 15kg of grains. So from the point of view of problems, eating meat generating a lot of real problems, if the chinese want to eat like americans, you would need 3 planet earths to feed them. The big cause of global warming is not caused by transportation like people think, its caused by all meat,dairy industry that, now we need more soil to plant soy,corn and etc to feed cattle, because it's more 15 times more intensive to feed cattle than to produce the same amount of grains.



This is a good sign, like the slavery abolicionists from the past, we know have people that think different, I do not know how many centuries and millennia will take to abolish animal use as a thing to be explored, for example we had human slavery for thousand of years, but know we have good things at our side, now we have freedom, education to all and the means to spread the message like internet.




That guy have all my sympathy, I think he's now around 40, he changed from those acts of the beginning to call attention, those acts are almost innocuous, because people will not change their acts based on those thing, what the guys is doing the best is educating people through speachs in colleges and schools. He's doing great educating.. like you said PETA and others organizations do almost nothing to help the cause.

Watch the questions and answers after the speech, is hilarious he talking about PETA and Pamela Anderson Boobs.

This guy harms humans to "help" animals. This guy argues for pure altruism, treating animals as greater than humans. He uses force to do it. I consider this completely immoral. Sure, causing pain for the sake of causing pain is contemptible - but using animals to better your life and the life of your family, not so much.

See, he has never said outside of "animals are our brothers" why it should be immoral. I totally get what he is saying, and I get that he is trying to attach an "ism" to it - the problem is he has supplied no justification for doing so. Speciesism should be put on the level of Nazism why? Because he said so?

His arguments are terrible. For example, put a kid in a crib with an rabbit and an apple? Kids that age will try to put anything in their mouth. Also, the rabbit will bite the kid - so its not advisable to actually try the experiment.

Or "dont use tools, dont use fire". And " Humans learn behavior". Well of course we do in both cases - our faculty of reason is what sets us apart. This guy is basically saying " throw away what makes you human, and then you will find humans eat plants". This is so absurd for making a moral argument regarding animals on so many levels it would take 15 pages minimum to begin to explore all the angles of absurdity.

Its not even about being inferior necessarily, theres also the sentience aspect. If a pig wrote me a letter asking not to be eaten, I would consider it.

Again, another fail argument - where he was talking about how the diseases borne by plants come from shit. Well, many do. But he was absolutely lying when he implied that the shit in question came exclusively from industrialized farming. This guy knows dick all about agriculture. Of course if he was educated on how the world actually works, he wouldnt hold these extremist views and expect other humans to follow him on pain of incurring his "righteous wrath".

Whats next for this guy, kill all the humans so animals have their "territory" back? Thats how a lot of PETA people think anyway. These types of people who advocate force to implement their agendas are not good people, and they are not moral people, and they have no case to make that they are standing up for a good cause.

This guy even bashed Descartes, who is considered one of the greatest thinkers of all time - by using irrational arguments, unfounded assertions, straw men and red herring comments.

Also, the argument about how much animals eat and it is supposedly inefficient is a simplistic argument, that does not cover a great many cases - and in any case is completely irrelevant to the morality issue of eating animals and using animals. "Global Warming" and the danger it does or does not pose, and causes thereof are a different topic altogether and should be treated separately or the thread will go hopelessly off topic.

Lastly, he fails to make a case for why the well being of animals should be more important than the well being of humans. To put it in context, think of the well being of your own children or family. Would you seriously deny your children a better life due to the feelings of a cow or pig?

Being a vegan and living your life how you see fit is all good and well but this crap is just plain nuts.

I wonder if he smells his own farts?

I dont understanding what are you saying, where/when hes causing pain to humans? If I understand in the beggining of his activism he caused financial damage to producers, other than this nothing was caused or is caused by him, in fact to not consume animal products is better economically is healther to your familiy, because is less resource intensive to produce grains, that the same amount of meat.



One thing because humans have been eating animals for thousand of years. The fact that we have been doing something for a long times does not make it morally right, Humans have been racist and sexist for centuries and we now recognize that racism and sexism are morally wrong.



His argument is only to try to illustrate that we are not naturally eat meaters, like monkey ancestors that were mostly vegetarians. We do not have the natural tools, like mandibules and claws and etcs.. so to sum up is not our natural “nature” to eat milk after been baby e do not need cow milk to survive or to be health. We are brain washed since child to behave according to the majority.



I do not see a logic, it's a moral question, I do not see damage on people eating meat when they have no other option for their survival, we have the choice and the knowlodge to feed healthier and again cheaper, but we for convenience, taste, tradition and etc.. we choose to eat from animals, to cause pain and suffering, do say me that the cow , day by day milk is sucked from their tits is a pleasure to them, we are causing animal pain for our pleasure, and just ignoring this fact.




You are again failling to the arguments, usually you will not hear that a guy had a heart attack or other desease from being a vegetarian, like he said others factors include like alchool,stress, drugs. But you see a lot of health problems caused by meat and fat->dairy diet. Why he's an extremist I don't get it. Hes teaching people another reasonable view of our habits towards the use of animals.



You are been irrational for those arguments, your health will be not decreased, your human enviroment will be be not depleted, in fact it will be inverse.



We can feed people well and healther, without resort to billions of animal killing every year
Irrational is what are we doing to the planet, we are consuming too much milk and meat for detrimental of our health and planet resources, the amount of deforastion that is taking place in Brazil to plant soy to feed cattle is imense.




It's not a assumption, is fact that to produce 1kg of meat is more resource intensive that produce 1kg of vegetables(Around 15 times more intensive). And countries like Brazil are deforesting all forest to produce more grains to feed for cattle. While you can believe that this not affect you in USA it does, we are in the same planet, if we take out amazon forest to plant soy to feed cattle it will have a global impact. While you cannot think like that meat is a luxury, again, if the east countries(india,china and etcs) begin to eat like eurpeans and americans we will need 3 another planet earths.



Again, not eating meat is less expensive and more healthier, you still blinded by what you want to see. Honestly I always had eat meat and dairy products/eggs, I always had a common sense that I knew about vegetables products and fruits being healther than meat/milk, After I grow up, I always had the moral awareness that delicious beef steak was with the pain of an animal that was slaved to that I had that delicous pleasure of taste. After many years of just ignoring the true, and inventing excuses like you are inventing, I realize that was not morally right what I was doing.
It's more health and economical advantagous to me do not eat meat and dairy products, I will be saving money in the future, and morally, I do not help to kill animals for my sake of taste. Because there are plenty of alternatives to meat/milk/eggs products.

That is the way to go, tell that someone is nuts and crazy and to mock. You guys can be more intelligent than that I know that you are being only lazy or do not have time to waste on this matter.

It's like an heresy to a texan guy like Donk or to many americans imagine their life wihout hambuerger and cheese.

I do not blame anyone, I ate hamburger and pizza almost a big part of my life. But I always had a clear picture of the moral question of killing the animals for it and the health aspect. But for that time i decided that my pleasure of taste was more important than the moral aspect and my health.

I never thought or called anyone crazy,nuts or mocked because they choose to do so, for morally questions and etcs.. Because if they choosed so, good for them.

Smelling his own farts is a reference to a South Park episode in which Prius owners who act like total douche bags because they feel superior to anyone who isn't driving a Prius, actually smell there own farts...

Domesticated animals, born, bread, and managed as a food source is a different application of humanity asserting itself as the Alpha Predator on top of the food chain. Not wanting to have animals suffer so that we can eat meat is an ideological agenda developed in the new age by individuals who would have us eating dandy lions and bark if they could.

Here is what I say to people when they say "Meat is murder, and you are a heathen for killing something that was a living animal." Hey dumbie, so what is your definition of "living"? Is not a plant that has cellular structure, and has a life cycle of birth, substance, growth, reproduction, and death, not a living thing as well? Does not a plant eat using the suns energy and convert that energy via photosynthesis into life giving "food" which allows it to continue through it's life cycle. How do you know that the piece of lettuce or radish you are eating right now didn't scream in agony as it was pulled from the ground and had its life cycle ended, mush like the cow that goes to the slaughter house...