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Originally Posted By: sinij
Regardless of example I provide, you simply going to argue that current western lifestyle is only possible due to abundance of cheap oil&gas energy. While this is correct, without oil&gas our civilization would collapse, this fact has nothing to do with social programs, and everything to do with cheap energy and resources enabling our present quality of life, from most social to least social government _ALL OF THEM_ would fail without this energy.


Good lord give an example. You yourself have complained about this kind of response.

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Helemoto, I have done just so in every thread.

The List:

1. Sweden (social, 9% GDP)
2. Canada ( social, 9% GDP )
3. Netherlands (state mandated purchase of private health insurance, 8% GDP)
4. Australia ( social, 6% GDP)


99. USA (private, 15% GDP)


Outcomes list reads pretty much in the same order. USA spends MORE (absolute and % GDP numbers) and gets LESS than every other first-world country.


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How can you possibly argue that the US gets less than every other country for our medical care when nearly ALL of the medical advancements the rest of the world enjoys came from the US?

Perhaps you should separate out of that 15% how much is for R&D and then compare something closer to apples and apples.


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Originally Posted By: Kaotic
How can you possibly argue that the US gets less than every other country for our medical care when nearly ALL of the medical advancements the rest of the world enjoys came from the US?


Key is - rest of the world enjoys, not US. There is no denying that US has best medical care for those with unlimited budget, sadly too many people priced out of the market.

I previously posted these statistics, but any way you look at overall US population - life expectancy, child mortality, number of readmissions, % population dying from preventable diseases... they _ALL_ trail behind.


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From other thread that got fagged up by Vuldan:

Originally Posted By: sinij

But let look at the facts - Canadian model for example only spends 9% of GDP on health care, to US 15%+, with better overall results. Less child mortality, longer life expectancy and no health insurance job slavery. How is that missing 6% is not an extra-governmental "tax" on everybody?

Canadian healthcare costs. or $3899 per person

US healthcare costs or $7291 per person

Infant Mortality and life expectancy.

You like to talk about inflation effects on personal wealth, how about we talk about ever-increasing health premiums and punitive individual insurance costs stifling small business creation and extracting ever-increasing toll on every household in US?


Last edited by sinij; 11/15/11 05:23 PM.

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I would not like to enter discussion,
but can you Kaotic point out how much USA gain with royalties and patents from the rest of the world using them, and the new millionares and bilionares from those.. enjoy is not the word lol... the word is $$, because everything invented is patented, even to a government/company want to use a medicine developed by a US company, it will pay rolyalties to US company, itīs big money.


Last edited by Mithus; 11/15/11 05:27 PM.

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Originally Posted By: sinij
Key is - rest of the world enjoys, not US. There is no denying that US has best medical care for those with unlimited budget, sadly too many people priced out of the market.

I previously posted these statistics, but any way you look at overall US population - life expectancy, child mortality, number of readmissions, % population dying from preventable diseases... they _ALL_ trail behind.


My point though is that your numbers include all the money being invested in R&D that other countries don't generally do nearly as much as the US does.


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Originally Posted By: Mithus
I would not like to enter discussion,
but can you Kaotic point out how much USA gain with royalties and patents from the rest of the world using them, and the new millionares and bilionares from those.. enjoy is not the word lol... the word is $$, because everything invented is patented, even to a government/company want to use a medicine developed by a US company, it will pay rolyalties to US company, itīs big money.


I'm sure there is quite a bit of money involved in providing quality medical care across the globe. Money makes the world go 'round brother. How would you propose those people be compensated for their hard work to save people's lives?


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Also I do not know how the things works in USA, but here in Brazil the private companies behind the health care plans, determine how much they pay for medics, how much time the consult medical with doctors should last, which exams would/should the doctors pass to pacients, I do not need say hows its bad because there is a unbalancing between power.
I would prefer a quality government health care system, not free but everyone paying a small %, so with everyone paying would teorically be cheap(not the right word, but half of the price that costs in US) like in those countries that sinji listed. Not everyone would use/benefit from it, but itīs like insurance you never know when you would need it.


Last edited by Mithus; 11/15/11 05:43 PM.

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Mithus, didn't you say that you're currently in law school?


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