The KGB Oracle Forums General Public Discussion (SPECIAL ACCESS) KGB Political Debate Central Climate Change, it's whats for DINNER!

While you all are here sweating your nuts off in this global warming, I'm going to find one of the glaciers that is growing and setup camp there.

About that C02 chart. What made the high's and low's of the chart (what was the significance of the PPM) before we started fucking it up in 1950? Active Volcano's? Asteroids hitting the earth? Just curious as to the explanation given for the highs and lows.

The graph was put out by the United States Aeronautic and Space Administration. You know NASA, the same organization that put men on the moon in 1969. I posted the link, but obviously noone looked at it.

Here it is again for shits and giggles.
http://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/

It states the following FACTS that are NOT in dispute.

Sea level rise

Global sea level rose about 17 centimeters (6.7 inches) in the last century. The rate in the last decade, however, is nearly double that of the last century.4

Global temperature rise

All three major global surface temperature reconstructions show that Earth has warmed since 1880. 5 Most of this warming has occurred since the 1970s, with the 20 warmest years having occurred since 1981 and with all 10 of the warmest years occurring in the past 12 years. 6 Even though the 2000s witnessed a solar output decline resulting in an unusually deep solar minimum in 2007-2009, surface temperatures continue to increase. 7

Warming oceans

The oceans have absorbed much of this increased heat, with the top 700 meters (about 2,300 feet) of ocean showing warming of 0.302 degrees Fahrenheit since 1969.8

Shrinking ice sheets

The Greenland and Antarctic ice sheets have decreased in mass. Data from NASA's Gravity Recovery and Climate Experiment show Greenland lost 150 to 250 cubic kilometers (36 to 60 cubic miles) of ice per year between 2002 and 2006, while Antarctica lost about 152 cubic kilometers (36 cubic miles) of ice between 2002 and 2005.

Declining Arctic sea ice

Both the extent and thickness of Arctic sea ice has declined rapidly over the last several decades. 9

Glacial retreat

Glaciers are retreating almost everywhere around the world — including in the Alps, Himalayas, Andes, Rockies, Alaska and Africa.10

Extreme events

The number of record high temperature events in the United States has been increasing, while the number of record low temperature events has been decreasing, since 1950. The U.S. has also witnessed increasing numbers of intense rainfall events.11

Ocean acidification

Since the beginning of the Industrial Revolution, the acidity of surface ocean waters has increased by about 30 percent.12,13 This increase is the result of humans emitting more carbon dioxide into the atmosphere and hence more being absorbed into the oceans. The amount of carbon dioxide absorbed by the upper layer of the oceans is increasing by about 2 billion tons per year.14,15

"This graph, based on the comparison of atmospheric samples contained in ice cores and more recent direct measurements"
Hi, so we mixed multiple ways of measuring something in the same graphic w/o giving the references of the paper telling why we can and in what conditions. I like that, it smells so much of political smoke and mirrors.

See level rise
It's not the rise which is important but if it going faster or slower. And let's just check a 2011 study instead of a 2005 one.
http://www.jcronline.org/doi/pdf/10.2112/JCOASTRES-D-10-00157.1
Abstract:



Global temperature rise
All three major temperature reconstructions are mostly based on measurement made with thermometer on the ground. Seeing how those data are compiled and used is awful. Some are registered at the wrong place so they're considered rural instead of in cities, lot of them were dropped during the early 90 and they lack reliable data measurement on ocean area as it's been relying on civilian ships taking some when they have the time until not long ago.
If you think those data sets are independent and use satellite data, forget about it.

Warming oceans
See how they speak about the measurement from 1969 only. Here they can't tell if it's unprecedented or not.

Declining Arctic sea ice
Here is their latest measurements:

See how it stopped going down till 2007. Lot of the ice there as to do with dominant winds. And we know ice got a lot smaller before the fossil fuel use by humans.

Shrinking ice sheets
Where are the data from after 2006?

Glacial retreat
As more to do with deforestation than warming. Without trees to create water vapor, less water transforms to ice to get on top of those mountains.

Extreme events
Guess what? No one, even the guys giving the data dare say it's due to some climate change. See how it's worded. Using the source they give, I get this kind of plots:


Ocean acidification
And here comes the next bullet point on the politically green agenda. But what does it have to do with global warming?

We need to use common sense, humans are changing his environment, we see the devastation of forests, polution of rivers and lakes near the cities, the environment has a certain balance and after industrialization of many country would be naive not to think what the global climate would not be changed by an excess of particles into the air, just like a big volcano would affect the climate to raise or lower temperatures. We just need to wait, the changes are coming, it's really terrifying to deny the changes, we can discuss what changes human activity causes on global climate, but denying that the humans are changing the enviroment is stupidy.

Here's a few scientist (700+) that disagree with man made global warming. Compared to the hundreds of thousands (more like hundreds) of scientists that claim there IS man made global warming.

http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?F...0b-bd9faf4dcdb7

I read a book that's called "Not by fire,but by ice" by Robert Felix. One point it suggests in the rise of Ocean temperatures was the many thousands of active under water volcano's. Not just in the pacific, but all over the world. Take the size and depth of the ocean, do you think the oceans temperature could rise very quickly without something else other than the sun warming it?

I do not know, I´m saying that denying humanity is not changing the enviroment by an excess of particules to the atmosfere is naivety. You cannot dump shit to a river and lakes and do not get the efects of it, thinking that you can dump to the atmosfere all residues and expect that earth can absorb it all with no effect is unrealistic.

For the love of not god dont quote scientist to Jet he wont believe any of them.

Its not a question of if we affect the environment, its how much we can affect it. And who says a little warmer is a bad thing, it may be what brings world peace.

One volcano can put more stuff into the air then humans can in 10 years. I say we sue the planet and get our carbon credits back.

I did state that I agree there is a climate issue, I just hope we are clear, this is NOT global warming.

The greatest issue with this stuff Jet is that no one, even if the planet really is that old, has the faintest fucking clue about 650,000 years ago. It kills me when these alleged men of science quote shit about 650,000 years of 350 million years. Give me a fucking break. Carbon dating, used on a live molusk, showed it to be 10,000 years old. That pretty much invalidates all "time related" age based testing with the carbon-14 dating system. Radioactive dating is as flawed.

Is the climate issue man driven, due to pollutants in the air, the deforestation of the planet, the diminished rain forests and the polluting of the water. Probably, hell, without scientific facts even, I can state better than 80% that it is so. Stating that is the issue does not provide a cure, remedy or even partial solution. The question should not be what is the current state, or even what caused it beyond stopping that, but how best to fix it.

If you ever get a chance to read a book, may I suggest this book...
http://iceagenow.com/
It's a very interesting book.