The KGB Oracle Forums The KGB Great Hall of History (ARCHIVE) Darkfall Members Forum Communication - The First Step

There's a lot of people talking in vent about how we need to organize, practice, and push in the shit of the gankers that come, reguarly, to any city we occupy. We can't change alliances every week, nor do we plan to. Also, we have to come to realize that you'll NEVER catch up statwise to these EU, exploited characters. We'll try our best, but lets not use that as an excuse.

While my character is FAR from ready, I know some of you have characters that have been "ready" for quite awhile - so I guess it's ready for the harsh facts of the mistakes, at least in my eyes, we are making.

This may seem forum trollish but the conversation needs to start somewhere, and I'm tired of waiting for someone else to say it.

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Communication

Introduction:
Communication, to me, is the legal version of the map hack, pure and simple. Good communication accomplishes two things - it allows us to know where the enemy is at and allows us to respond accordingly. Communication, however, is NOT a new concept to Competative Gaming. Darkfall is not a point and click, automatically hit the enemy every time - it is FPS like, and thusly, our tactics should reflect that.

The reason why the ONLY players that are considered good are the EU STAT exploited players, is because most of the guilds in Darkfall "Wing it." And the few that don't, are the merc guilds. (Which, lets face it, are the better pvpers in Darkfall) This is what separates KGB from the rest, and why I believe we are in a better position to get better than we were at launch. We want organization. We have people willing, and perfectly able, to do what ALL of the large guilds aren't doing. Organize. (Maybe with the exception of LOD) If I didn't believe that, I would of quit already.

Mistakes:
If there is one thing that I can't stand, it's communication that's vague - and no one realizes that it is the main reason people are dying. We don't have bad pvpers in KGB, a lot of the time it's because we have bad communication and that good pvper faces 5 guys when he ...

a) thought there were less enemies

or

b) was given a general location of the enemy and stumbled upon them.

... ending in a quick, painfully death that leaves him frustrated, not because he died, because of the way he died - against three times his number with no chance to defend himself.

**

Here's a couple of examples JUST from last night. In each instance listed below, the speaker said ONLY what's listed, then was silent. Only when asked directly would they give details.

"They [The Enemy] just killed me."
Kay: "Where are you?"
[Silence ...]

Thank you for the spot on description. Now I know you were venting, but none of what you said helps us.

"They are in the city."

Where in the city? How many? Numbers? What landmarks are they by?

"They are north"

Where north? By the northwest corner? On the trail? How far? Do you realize how big "North" is?

"I just got ganked"

Where? How many? What type of characters? Magic? Plate? Which direction are they running?

Another mistake that was done, is how people respond to the information given during battle. Especially in an FPS-like game, they get so hyped up they forget to communicate, respond or reply to information being sent to them.

For example:

Yesterday, we got ganked by Outnumbered, who thusly went into our city multiple times, going in and out at will. There was a point where a couple of us were fighting north, just on the ledge against 4-5 guys from outnumbered. We promptly killed their mounts, but got slaughtered in the process ...

Right after our last guy got killed, Sabin, fully geared, came around a corner and saw a single Outnumbered player. (I was looking from my dead body) The other Outnumbered didn't see Sabin yet because they were busy looting. Sabin, not seeing the other 4 enemy players, promply started attacking the single outnumbered thinking he was alone.

I yelled in vent, "Sabin, there's 4 more behind you!"

But, locked in on his target, he continued to swing away until he started getting beat on by the other outnumbered. Only THEN did he jump off the ledge and promptly got slaughtered by the chasing 4 enemy players.

I'm not calling Sabin out, because he's a good player - but this is just a concrete example of how bad communication goes wrong. I know I, and lots of people, have been guilty of this same mistake. Most of the time, it's me running into a battle headlong, not realizing that i'm running into twice my numbers, and then dying needlessly. (I did that following Kay, then, like a moron, got jumped by 3 melee users and died without firing a shot)

The REASON this isn't a problem for other guilds, is that they are small guilds. They selectively recruit people who either have Overpowered Characters so it doesn't matter, or they are merc guilds that are always on the offensive and are so selective in their process, that the players they recruit already have a keen sense around them. Those type of guilds are a dime a dozen and, the moment one key player quits the game, the guild falls apart.

How many times do you die and you don't know where they came from? If you're like me, that's like all of your deaths. You're just locked on your target, then suddenly, you find yourself being beat on by 3 players you never saw coming.

Communication is the key, and it is the FIRST thing we learn before anything else. Unless we have overpowered characters, and can take on multiple players at once, we have to rely on good communication of enemy locations between teammates so we aren't taken by surprise. The cold hard truth is that we have to work together to kill people more than other guilds because our characters don't have the stats to compete with them 1v1.

The following is the rules I believe, if we build upon, will help us move into the right direction.

*****







Fixes

Communication, in any FPS, involves two things.

1)Location of Enemy and/or landmarks.
2)Responding to Teammates' Communication.

______________________________________________________

Point 1:

I've said this in VENT multiple times, but it bears repeating. Call out enemy locations, even if it seems obvious. Include numbers of enemy and landmakers associated with it.

Examples:

"Three outnumbered hitting the farm."
"Five Enemy at the bank."
"Two enemy North, outside the walls, havn't jumped off yet."
"Three enemies fleeing north, they're turning around."

You get the picture.

"Enemy north," just doesn't cut it, and is leading to many deaths of people who just blindly go north without knowing the disposition and number of the enemy. You'll DIE every time, because sometimes it'll be a small number you can kill, and other times it'll be a large number.

______________________________________________________

Point 2:

Responding to teammates' information is CRITICAL. If someone says your going to be flanked, well then, GET your ass moving, or at least finish off your opponent as quickly as possible. This may seem like an obvious thing to say, but it needs to be said for those that's never played a competative game before.

______________________________________________________

Attitude:

Lastly, we need the proper attitude. Brag about the kill or emo later. Talk alot, but only what's important and relevant to the situtation.
As much as some people don't want to hear this, KEEP TALKING to each other. We're using each other as our own personal wall hack.

Future:

There are some things we may want to do once people get better as communication, some people have mentioned already.

-Pre-naming locations around the area we are fighting (a la Counter Striker or Quake matches), so we can quickly refer to them.
-Calling out healing spells and Focus Fire

ex. "Come together for Witches' Brew in 3 ... 2 ... 1"
"Focus Fire on [enemy name]"

-Overall, there's a million things we can do; but we have to work on the basics first.
-I've tried this a few times, and we wiped the floor with 420 working together; I think this can work.

For this to work, we need to help each other, depend on each other and trust that KGB member's information is true. We, also have to call out people that aren't communicating effectively, not pussyfoot around the issue. Just tell them respectfully what they did wrong, and move on. It's not being a dick, it's so we don't do the same mistakes over and over.

Of course, the success of any plan is dependant on those that believe in it. As you can tell, it's a slow day at work, but I do know what i'm talking about. I know no one gives a shit what I did in the past in FPSs, but I really believe the same things that helped me succeed there translates to this game or, at the very least, will help in some small way.

In the absence of any other system, I guess this will have to do.

Comments? Revisions? Critiques?

Was your boss in an all day meeting or something?

I type really fast, you know how we do it. Flex.

Very well put together Syloc /sticky

This is something we attempted to work on in EU prime and have gotten lazy at it here on NA. Something we really need to implement 100% and everyone needs to do it.

In the beginning there was darkness....and Andruk EU stood apart

A few brave souls like myself pioneered city defense at a time when I was told sitting in a tree all damn day was a waste of time, and perhaps it was skill wise but I learned a few things. How to call incoming attackers or targets, how to describe those forces, and their potential threat, their positioning, their arrangement, their heading or direction, where to direct cannon fire and their ambush points. I don't know if what your talking about is even remotely similar, or if city defense is the issue, but even open field combat should be handled this way and I agree communication is key. All the top FPS Clans live and die by it. At a time when riding around in circles patrolling was seen as a useless form of early warning until it started producing results and saving lives and giving us a chance to locate mobilize and repel attackers was only then when the Marshal program was brought online, was it worth it, is it still in use, is it needed now? I don't know ask your Provost Marshal, don't ask me. If you don't know who that is ask Jet because i don't know who it is either and I don't play anymore.

All I do know is the reasons are obvious, everyone patrolling was grouped, and even those who were not knew which tree I generally sat in, and when I was mobile so too were the others in the defense patrol, we could lead our enemy into traps and close off escape routes, by making these calls it allowed farmers to vacate the area, it gave people at the bank or at mob spawns some time to mount up and ride to the fight, it allowed people to man the walls and cannon, and arrange into a stronger grouping, those carrying valuables could bank them, those macroing could log out or come help and all because one guy held overwatch, or because 4-6 rode patrol. Sometimes the patrol would even follow far afield and perform watch duties on groups farming far from the city walls, or scout distant areas so as to curtail any attackers before they even saw Andruks walls. I felt the program was useful, but then I don't know if it is needed, and if it is why it hasn't been active this whole time.


My story since Syloc produced his own, is a bit one sided in our favor but not by much. It takes place at Andruk on EU, I called out guild tags, and then said "attackers from the north quadrant, heading north east, four in number, heavy geared, on foot, scattered formation." Several people came out, the attackers were dispersed, Hare had isolated one, I jumped out of my tree and under skilled and armored only in studded I joined him. Sure it was a two on one, but the guy was good, together each of us took turns fading in and out with the guy and I got the killing shot, and Hare let me have all the loot because he's a nice guy and he had plenty.

Communication works, team work is also vital and that day was the first time I ever fought beside Hare in any game. That day was also the day the Marshal program became important, were others doing it sure, were they as dedicated, I don't know. All I do know is I was trying to be proactive while many others were being reactive, and aside from some of the better fighters in KGB the only way I felt I could compete on the same level without the same skill was to provide intelligence and defense at a time when there wasn't much and to communicate that information to give the guild the fighting chance it needed.

With communication comes situational awareness, situational awareness allows for a strategy to manage assets and employ tactics to win a engagement, but more importantly it keeps you from falling for the "Hey look your shoes untied" knock on the melon trick.

Besides everybody knows the best pvp fighters come from Texas, and that's where I am moving back to so keep that in mind.

How are you ever going to climb down off that wall of text that your soapbox is on Drakiis?

I have a stunt double for the kind of shit.

Looks like WTH notes from 5 minutes in the officer channel on a busy night.

with as much bitching as is going on you could fill twice what I wrote.