The KGB Oracle Forums General Public Discussion (PUBLIC) The Pub For those who value freedom...

Well it isn't unconstitutional since the constitution doesn't mention parties at all.

Good call, lol...

So in terms of legality, they are not unconstitutional, but in terms of presence, they are? (lol, just a little play on the prefix, don't take me seriously here! XD)

you guys just need to learn how to riot like the french

Yes, the French have usually been so much better off after their riots...

FYI there are over 30 political partys in the US only 2 that have any real power.

As for democracy not lasting in its true form.
I can not think of one country that has had a true democracy in history. Let me know if you think of one.

Ok, substitute "true democracy" for "free republic". Focusing on semantics here is rather disingenuous dont you think?

"1. Invoke a terrifying internal and external enemy"
Since we no shit have a serious external enemy, I don't think this is sign of the coming fascist state. If you don't think we have a serious external enemy, Google Sept 11, and rewatch the video of the towers falling. And they want to do that and worse, again."

I personally dont think becoming a closed society is the answer to preventing terrorism. There is no doubt becoming a police state will make it harder for terrorists to strike, but do you really think that its the answer?

"2. Create a gulag. Prisoner of War camps do not qualify as Gulags - as soon as we start throwing large number of purely political prisoners, US Citizens, let me know. John Walker Lynd and Joseph Padilla don't count, since they actively went over to the other side."

Actually they are NOT prisoners of war, they are "enemy combatants", big big difference when looking at the legal implications. One example of an innocent man being kidnapped and tortured overseas. Links from Time aand other domestic journalism stories available upon request, the Amnesty story was just atop the list after a quick google. Think its only one? What about the lawyer from Seattle, and never NEVER forget that most of the people in Guantanamo have yet to be charged with anything, and never forget that the worst thing about this is the SECRECY involved. Starting with "undesirables" like "Muslims", the govt is getting the American people used to the idea that secretly detaining and torturing people is OK, and trying to lay a future legal framework that will apply when the targets are no longer muslims, but domestic political activists for other causes.

"3. Develop a thug caste. I know lefties dislike VP Cheney and Haliburton, but I don't think they qualify. I couldn't find any reference to republican goons in Florida for the 2000 election mentioned in the article, but I did find this. But that's Democrats behaving badly, which doesn't support the argument very well."

IIRC the article talked about private armies in general, not just Haliburton. I dont think the problem is a party issue either, both parties have problems. Its not a lefty-righty issue, as a matter of fact true conservatives despise over-reaching government. True conservatives would never trade liberty for an illusion of security.

""4. Set up an internal surveillance system. Crap - the warrentless wiretaps and other measures under beefed up security target communications that originate in other countries, and fall under Article II of the US Constitution outlining the powers of the President as Commander in Chief of the Armed forces.

Wow.... so blatantly untrue I dont even know where to begin with this ones, and it basically warrents its own post, which I will make regarding the subject in the not to distant future. Can we say Axciom, SeisInt, Matrix anyone? Can we say NSA STA recording devices on AT&T fiber trunks? Can we say unprecedented use of domestic National Security Letters, complete with lackadaisy records keeping regarding the matter, the FBI was even rebuked by the Inspector General for it.

Origional Articles remaining points just as weak? Come ON Owain, the counters you mentioned/pasted dont even have basic information about the subject, including the President's own stances (see point #2). How on EARTH can you take such a ill-informed, poorly formulated "rebuke" as anything but pure claptrap.

As least grab a rebuke from a source that has the first clue whats going on, or maybe they havent been so ignorant as to ignore the whole point of the President's and DOJ's arguments regarding "enemy combatants" and are intentionally lying to you in hopes you will, lacking proper information, continue to support these dastardly projects.

You are correct in that they are not prisoners of war. I was being sloppy there. If we were to treat them strictly in accordance with the Geneva Convention, since they do not abide by recognized laws of armed conflict in that they do not wear recognizable uniforms, we would be justified in considering them to be spies and sabateurs, and should summarily have them all shot. Instead, they get a extended stay at Club Gitmo, where they gain weight and live under better conditions than they would at home, at least when they aren't throwing feces at the guards.

But even so, Gitmo is not a gulag, any more than the facilities we had here in Utah during WWII to hold German and Italian prisoners were gulags. But then we had a much higher class of prisoners back then.

You know that when you consider Nazi's and Italian facists to be "not so bad" you must be dealing with some pretty serious vermin.

And so we are.