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Why does KGB continue #14831 01/14/07 03:42 AM
Joined: Apr 2003 Posts: 12,986 Likes: 44 KGB HeadQuarters JetStar OP (GM10) KGB High King KGB Federal Faction (F5) High Chancellor KGB New World Faction KGB Oracle Administrator Founded KGB in 1997
OP JetStar (GM10) KGB High King KGB Federal Faction (F5) High Chancellor KGB New World Faction KGB Oracle Administrator Founded KGB in 1997 Joined: Apr 2003 Posts: 12,986 Likes: 44 KGB HeadQuarters	Quote: Message from "Ganshauk" <ganshauk1@charter.net> on Sun, 14 Jan 2007 02:14:15 -0600 ----- To: <gm@the-kgb.com> Subject: Imperium Rising You probably get a million of these types of emails, but what the hell.... I first met you guys in UO. I forget the name of the server it was so long ago. It was the PK server. I hated you guys. You developed the zerg technique before the term was even coined. I ran with some mean sob's back then, Niels Ashe, Cyan, ect... I saw you again in Shadowbane. You came in just when I was leaving. I was running with Skyfang at the time. We had a NAP with you but because of your zerg capabilities, you got away with alot more than you should have. I was itching to take you down but politics were paramount and I had orders to follow. Since then, I have made my own game. It is browser based and free. ImperiumRising.com. It is not pretty graphically, but I am convinced that an organization of your calibre will have plenty of folks that will find it fascinating. Dont send kids here. It is a tough game. UDL tried and died. Check it out. I think it is right up your alley. I wouldn't send this to you otherwise. -Ganshauk Why do we exist? If you were High King, how would you respond? Your advice is appreciated. I have a long response planned. Star Citizen Hanger: RSI Javelin Destroyer, Hull E, RSI Constellation Pheonix, Aegis Dynamics Retaliator, Banu Merchantman F7A Military Hornet Upgrade, F7C-S Hornet Ghost, F7C-R Hornet Tracker, Origin 325a Fighter

Re: Why does KGB continue JetStar #14832 01/14/07 04:25 AM
Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 648 Edmonton, Canada Arcain KGB Supreme Knight
Arcain KGB Supreme Knight Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 648 Edmonton, Canada	to spread the love of course... and drink beer KGB NINJA! http://goallineblitz.com/game/signup.pl?ref=33217966

Re: Why does KGB continue Arcain #14833 01/14/07 04:51 AM
Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 648 Edmonton, Canada Arcain KGB Supreme Knight
Arcain KGB Supreme Knight Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 648 Edmonton, Canada	really, its because good people stick together and most people in the guild back each other up or help out in any way they can there really is not a better place to be in KGB NINJA! http://goallineblitz.com/game/signup.pl?ref=33217966

Re: Why does KGB continue Arcain #14834 01/14/07 09:36 AM
Joined: Dec 2005 Posts: 1,540 BoSllBibliotequa Missing in Action - October 2021
BoSllBibliotequa Missing in Action - October 2021 Joined: Dec 2005 Posts: 1,540	I was going to say something along the lines of what Arcain said; it's why when I play games KGB isn't in, I drift through guilds, quitting them out of disinterest after mere weeks. We're a group of people that no matter how diverse (IBM ... travelers or whatever you do :P, students, housewives, cops, soldiers, Mercenaries (I what you REALLY do in Iraq, Raek!) wangsters (Haraa :P), American, European, South-American, Protestant, Mormon, Catholic, Atheist, etc.) happen to have the common interest of gaming. KGB is full of great people that form the bond that makes the guild ever-lasting: friendship. When I join another guild I find the people to be boring. In WoW for example they're all on their own little loot-quest, maybe saying random Chuck Norris jokes in guild chat or something, but for the most part, they aren't interested in befriending me, and I'm frankly not interested in befriending them. It's not I dislike them or anything, but they're bland; I think of them as a classmate, sure, to a degree they're your friend, but many you just go through the day having said "Hi" and "Bye" to them, and those that are closer friends to you mostly hang out in school with you, nothing more. In WoW for example, I rarely PvPed with those guilds, I never hung out in Ventrilo with them just talking crap, I never saw truly interesting threads on their forums, I would just go to a raid, pay my dues, and get out. It's hard not to see why KGB continues. Why would anyone ever want this to stop? As long as I'm gaming, I'm going to be KGB, it's where my digital friends are at, and I don't want to sever the ties I have with them. I may not always be playing the game KGB is playing at the moment (many are in EVE right now, I just got into it again, for months I was drifting around First Person Shooters, RPGS, and Warcraft III, but I'm playing with them again. Bishop is going on a mission for two years but he'll visit these forums when he gets back home,) but I'll never stop visiting these forums, even if just to keep up to date with events. KGB continues because we're not players that happened to join some guild. We're friends that happened to join some game. I think that's what I was getting to, the theme of my whole argument. These guilds in WoW will never stick together because they banded together for the purpose of succeeding in WoW. Five years from now when cobwebs are filling up WoW's server clusters, and the server populations have diminished, these guilds will have lost their purpose, and will simply fade into the past. Five years from now when the game we're currently playing dies away into antiquity, we'll simply get on these forums again, waiting for the next game we all happen to play together. BoS Archon

Re: Why does KGB continue BoSllBibliotequa #14835 01/14/07 11:11 AM
Joined: May 2006 Posts: 1,850 Slinger Missing in Action - October 2021
Slinger Missing in Action - October 2021 Joined: May 2006 Posts: 1,850	First, I'd like to point out that that that was Bib's 666th post. Now that that's out of the way, I couldn't have said it better than Bib, unless of course I went through his post and replaced every instance of 'friend' with 'family'. I really do think of KGB as a second, ridiculously large family. If you think about it, we really do act like one; even though we have arguments amongst ourselves, piss each other off, and occasionally disown some problem members, we stick together through and through and always back each other up in the end. So, here's to the KGB!

Re: Why does KGB continue Slinger #14836 01/14/07 02:12 PM
Joined: Dec 2005 Posts: 1,540 BoSllBibliotequa Missing in Action - October 2021
BoSllBibliotequa Missing in Action - October 2021 Joined: Dec 2005 Posts: 1,540	gasps so it was. I forgot about that aspect, I was going to write about it as I was writing my post, but somehow got sidetracked and forgot. Nice call though, Sling you're absolutely right. This guild does act a lot like a family, hell, Jetstar gave Ltima a home for a good amount of months when she got kicked out of her house a few years back. Now all we need is for one of our many fertile women to name one of their kids Jetstar :P BoS Archon

Re: Why does KGB continue JetStar #14837 01/15/07 08:23 AM
Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 7,455 Likes: 1 Frozen Heaven E Elph (GM4) KGB Prime Minister KGB Federal Faction
Elph (GM4) KGB Prime Minister KGB Federal Faction E Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 7,455 Likes: 1 Frozen Heaven	i would tell him to take his game and shove it up his ass

Re: Why does KGB continue Elph #14838 01/15/07 10:48 AM
Joined: Dec 2005 Posts: 609 Texas Awastatyme KGB Knight
Awastatyme KGB Knight Joined: Dec 2005 Posts: 609 Texas	Quote: i would tell him to take his game and shove it up his ass Sideways

Re: Why does KGB continue Awastatyme #14839 01/15/07 09:25 PM
Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 1,719 Houston TX ltima KGB Supreme Knight
ltima KGB Supreme Knight Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 1,719 Houston TX	Quote: Quote: i would tell him to take his game and shove it up his ass Sideways with hot sauce as lube.

Re: Why does KGB continue ltima #14840 01/15/07 09:37 PM
Joined: May 2006 Posts: 1,850 Slinger Missing in Action - October 2021
Slinger Missing in Action - October 2021 Joined: May 2006 Posts: 1,850	Quote: Quote: Quote: i would tell him to take his game and shove it up his ass Sideways with chili powder as lube.

Re: Why does KGB continue ltima #14841 01/15/07 09:44 PM
Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 540 Likes: 4 PA syev KGB (F5) High Chancellor Crowfall Faction KGB Paladin KGB Oracle Administrator
syev KGB (F5) High Chancellor Crowfall Faction KGB Paladin KGB Oracle Administrator Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 540 Likes: 4 PA	Well first of since your openly asking. If it was me I wouldn't even respond. Second out of curiosity why are you posting this... i mean uggghhhh...i'd rather see a good article about darkfall that hasn't been posted in the forum, over some guy that has enough time to message us. I can understand some mishaps in UO since it was still NEWage Gaming. But really, Shadowbane?!shadowbane was always and will always be a game was based on zerging. No respectable guild wanted to zerg anyway. Eventually the term zerging just became a "coined term" for getting your ass kicked. Saying anything about this is lowgrade.

Re: Why does KGB continue syev #14842 01/15/07 10:57 PM
Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 1,279 Portland, OR Garal KGB Supreme Knight King's High Council
Garal KGB Supreme Knight King's High Council Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 1,279 Portland, OR	I'm confused as well as to why this was posted as front page news.. -[KGB]- Garal TheGreat

Re: Why does KGB continue Garal #14843 01/15/07 11:38 PM
Joined: Feb 2006 Posts: 245 Colorado Winter Former KGB Member
Winter Former KGB Member Joined: Feb 2006 Posts: 245 Colorado	I think the reason that Jet made this front page news is it is something that bothers him I would think. Since the dawn of KGB there has always been some guild, group, clan, whatever you want to call it that accuse KGB of Zerging, Ganking and generally playing like assholes. What most other guilds don't get and don't realize is that KGB is not JUST a guild. We are a tightly knit batch that makes sure to learn the best way to beat our enemies. We are constantly accused on Hybrid of "ganking" reds. Even when the numbers are even or stacked against us, we didn't "play fair" and it is because they lost. People in general hate to lose. They will piss, moan and whine about why it wasn't their fault they lost or died. We have rolled through Vesper many a night over the past couple of weeks with 3 or 4 of us, sometimes more but most often it is a core group that does Vesper fighting. But if you talk to the people we fight the most there ( guild DOC) they will tell you, while the 4 of us are standing there mind you, that we ran through with a 10 person gank squad and didn't fight fair blah blah blah. And it is because they can't seem to get down the technique. We have run in there 8 against 4 and still come out victorious in the end, yeah they would drop one of us but then we would drop 2 or 3 of them. It has always been this way. I remember people saying Nibs hacked when he got good at PvP, and that he cheated by having blue healers or that one of the other KGB around him had attacked too. It was nothing more then whining. I have been in gank squad guilds, I was red for a LONG LONG time before coming to KGB. And KGB isn't one of them. They just have the formula right is all. And another thing that has to be realized is that we are one of the only guilds out there that has been around and active this long. Look at the guilds we fought along with in UO. Very few of them remain and only 1 I know of is still playing OSI shards but thier boards are dead, their community has become a ghost town. They get on, get as many people they can together, go literally gank squad through the dungeons and towns that they can and go back and log off. We are not like that folks. KGB is my family, no matter how long I have disappeared in the past I am welcome back with open arms by most everyone. I have taken pride in wearing the tag in EVERY game I have played with or without other KGB members there. My clan names in CS were ALWAYS [clan name]Winter[KGB]. I have a feirce loyalty to KGB and everyone in it and if I think someone is doing something against the guild I will let it be known. I don't apoligize for my protectiveness. KGB is loved and hated for its longevity, its reputation as a long standing guild and its loyalty to its members. If I have to die 15 times in one night in a game in defense of KGB I do it. Because no matter what has gone on in our lives, there has always been one "brother or sister" to talk to about it, and a shoulder to cry on, and when you kill a bunch of reds in UO there used to be pizza LOL. I joined KGB around 99. I have seen some good people come and go, some great people come and go and some people go that never should have come in the first place we found out in the end. But with every new game we grow, hell even without new games we grow. There is not a night that goes by that I don't get at least 1 person that says "Hey is that the KGB from...(insert game name here)?" We are known throughout the gaming communities, and I would say 85% of it is in a good way. That makes me proud. This letter Jetstar got was meant to insult us, not invite us. And I take that as an insult. He said "Don't send children here" well I say anyone that begins an "invitation" with "you guys are the zerg kings" basically are children. If you can't take the heat and intensity with which KGB plays their games then don't play. We are here to enjoy ourselves, play the game to the best of our abilities and most the time even win. All of us know that in RL and in game when we fall there is always someone HERE that can help us back up and back us up when nessisary. I love you guys/gals. No matter where I have been or what I have been doing KGB has always been there in one way or another. I am proud to hold the KGB title and wear it with honor. I hold no other guild above my own. And I really need to quit posting after taking Tylenol Cold Nighttime cuz it gets long and drawn out LOL This guy that sent this letter, he can kiss my KGB ass.

Re: Why does KGB continue Winter #14844 01/16/07 08:33 AM
Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 2,576 Likes: 13 Utah Owain KGB Supreme Knight King's High Council
Owain KGB Supreme Knight King's High Council Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 2,576 Likes: 13 Utah	So, the Z word again, is it? I have heard that so many times, and I've explained the situation in more forums than I can count. It boils down to a difference in philosophy. With a lot of gamers, it's all me, Me, ME. "I'M the one with the mad 'l33t skilz, so duel me, biatch, and get pwned!" Or so they say until a KGB squad rolls through, dry loots him, and kills his horse as payment for past crimes. So they sputter about how 'unfair' it is. It's just combat. Nothing fancy, nothing to brag about, and it isn't a spectator sport. In UO, it was a job that needed to be done, killin' pk rat bastards that desperately needed killin', and there wasn't time to waste on anything fancy, because there was always another bunch of reds around the next corner, and they needed killin', too. I think our tactics evolved the way they did because we did have a bunch of current and former military, so small unit tactics developed early and easily, and we found it to be the most efficient way dispatch our enemies. This is not to say that we didn't have some deadly players. Binbs, among other, was one of the most deadly solo players I've ever seen, and in a group, he was a force of nature - unstoppable. Many of our Champions were the same. But if you don't have an automatic killin' machine with you, a good solid KGB squad was almost as good. The bad guys hated us because we were good at our job, and more often than not, we came out on top, and even if we didn't, we just kept coming back and eventually wore the opposition down, if nothing else. Why does the KGB continue? For the same reason that most combat veterans will tell you why they fight. When you're in the shit, it's not politics, ideology, nationalism, patriotism, or any of that. You fight because of the guy next to you, and you'd rather die than let that guy down. That is why the KGB will always continue. To the everlasting glory of the infantry... Owain ab Arawn KGB Supreme Knight King's High Council

Re: Why does KGB continue Owain #14845 01/17/07 07:34 AM
Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 2,412 TX Heidi KGB Crown Princess
Heidi KGB Crown Princess Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 2,412 TX	I'm thinking the main point of all of this is why do we continue? No we aren't a perfect clan with perfect rules that are followed perfectly every time. We are a family. We screw up we get messed up but we always have someone there to help knock the dust off and get back up. KGB was never about any one game. We were bout an idea. Doing what is right, helping out the little guy, fighting against greifers and morons. KGB isn't perfect. What we are is persistent. We are a light in a very dark world. Even when KGB was at its lowest, few people posting or even after a horrible split. The 'idea, the heartbeat, the light whatever you want to call it continued. KGB is a family, bound by common interest and goals, ready for that next call to battle whether it be to game or to help a friend. Brother before ourselves. Sometimes in the winds of change we find our true direction.

Re: Why does KGB continue JetStar #14846 01/19/07 06:57 PM
Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 3,147 Likes: 14 San Antonio, TX Vuldan Former KGB Member
Vuldan Former KGB Member Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 3,147 Likes: 14 San Antonio, TX	LOL. Wow. Ganshauk. I seem to recall that name from some dead screen shot I got a medal for. Ah well. Many have commented here and of course, some of the comments have been excellent and well thought out and some have not (read that as Syev..LOL) KGB still exists because Jet had a dream and refused to let it die, even under the weight of countless internal strifes and even more external hatred. Everyone hates KGB that is not a member because, for better or worse, KGB had ideals that could be looked on as shining examples, KGB was not afraid to stick up for those ideals, even against what would seem to be insurmountable odds and in the end, in most cases, KGB came out on top, which further fueled the hatred. Not everyone followed every rule to the letter of the law, but in most cases things worked out one way or the other. It is the petty mind of the loser who creates terms like "zerg" in order to rationalize the fact that they could not measure up to the leetness they dreamed they were in whatever game they played. It is ironic that when KGB were being rolled by the members of various other guilds shortly after our migration to Seige Perilous, no one ever said they were zerging us. LOL. And we would not have had it any other way. In it's history, going on 10 solid years now, KGB has been represented in almost every online gaming world you can think of. And through all of that, MOST of the membership tried hard to live up to the ideals the guild was founded on and that they believed in. Like any large unit, there were differences and those that could be worked out were and those that could not resulted in fractures, but the dream and the ideal at the core remained the same. If all the perfect people in the room will leave, then Ganshauk and everyone else who thinks as he does can stand up and be proclaimed emperor for the day. Otherwise, KGB will still exist because of the core people who have deemed it is something they want to continue to fight for and believe in, regardless of the other people of the gaming world, myself included. Can't take that Gan, then continue to work on your own thing. I doubt you will ever see KGB there, but then, you didn't really want them there with that weak ass "invite". I have called many KGB brother and sister, have met people through its hallowed halls who have become my friends for as many years as it has existed. I think fondly of the times I shared the banner and raised it high in defense of them and the codes we chose to live by. That I eventually left over disagreements within the enforcement of that code does not diminish those friendships for me one bit. I enjoy knowing that for good or bad, I will see KGB in almost every gaming world I venture too, either beside me or across from me in some form. And the fact that they will be in a unit, spearheaded by someone I call friend will not deter me, nor anger me. It will be. Because that, Ganshauk, is what it means to be KGB. Raises a Beer in to old comrades and friends Keep rocking KGB. Darkfall HAS got to come out someday.

Re: Why does KGB continue Vuldan #14847 01/20/07 11:19 AM
Joined: Apr 2003 Posts: 12,986 Likes: 44 KGB HeadQuarters JetStar OP (GM10) KGB High King KGB Federal Faction (F5) High Chancellor KGB New World Faction KGB Oracle Administrator Founded KGB in 1997
OP JetStar (GM10) KGB High King KGB Federal Faction (F5) High Chancellor KGB New World Faction KGB Oracle Administrator Founded KGB in 1997 Joined: Apr 2003 Posts: 12,986 Likes: 44 KGB HeadQuarters	Quote: LOL. Wow. Ganshauk. I seem to recall that name from some dead screen shot I got a medal for. Ah well. Many have commented here and of course, some of the comments have been excellent and well thought out and some have not (read that as Syev..LOL) KGB still exists because Jet had a dream and refused to let it die, even under the weight of countless internal strifes and even more external hatred. Everyone hates KGB that is not a member because, for better or worse, KGB had ideals that could be looked on as shining examples, KGB was not afraid to stick up for those ideals, even against what would seem to be insurmountable odds and in the end, in most cases, KGB came out on top, which further fueled the hatred. Not everyone followed every rule to the letter of the law, but in most cases things worked out one way or the other. It is the petty mind of the loser who creates terms like "zerg" in order to rationalize the fact that they could not measure up to the leetness they dreamed they were in whatever game they played. It is ironic that when KGB were being rolled by the members of various other guilds shortly after our migration to Seige Perilous, no one ever said they were zerging us. LOL. And we would not have had it any other way. In it's history, going on 10 solid years now, KGB has been represented in almost every online gaming world you can think of. And through all of that, MOST of the membership tried hard to live up to the ideals the guild was founded on and that they believed in. Like any large unit, there were differences and those that could be worked out were and those that could not resulted in fractures, but the dream and the ideal at the core remained the same. If all the perfect people in the room will leave, then Ganshauk and everyone else who thinks as he does can stand up and be proclaimed emperor for the day. Otherwise, KGB will still exist because of the core people who have deemed it is something they want to continue to fight for and believe in, regardless of the other people of the gaming world, myself included. Can't take that Gan, then continue to work on your own thing. I doubt you will ever see KGB there, but then, you didn't really want them there with that weak ass "invite". I have called many KGB brother and sister, have met people through its hallowed halls who have become my friends for as many years as it has existed. I think fondly of the times I shared the banner and raised it high in defense of them and the codes we chose to live by. That I eventually left over disagreements within the enforcement of that code does not diminish those friendships for me one bit. I enjoy knowing that for good or bad, I will see KGB in almost every gaming world I venture too, either beside me or across from me in some form. And the fact that they will be in a unit, spearheaded by someone I call friend will not deter me, nor anger me. It will be. Because that, Ganshauk, is what it means to be KGB. Raises a Beer in to old comrades and friends Keep rocking KGB. Darkfall HAS got to come out someday. Star Citizen Hanger: RSI Javelin Destroyer, Hull E, RSI Constellation Pheonix, Aegis Dynamics Retaliator, Banu Merchantman F7A Military Hornet Upgrade, F7C-S Hornet Ghost, F7C-R Hornet Tracker, Origin 325a Fighter

Re: Why does KGB continue JetStar #14848 01/20/07 11:26 AM
Joined: Dec 2005 Posts: 1,540 BoSllBibliotequa Missing in Action - October 2021
BoSllBibliotequa Missing in Action - October 2021 Joined: Dec 2005 Posts: 1,540	Yeah I had a response to Vuldan's post much like Jet's. Definitely one of the most mature (both in Wisdom and Age :P) CxC around. He may not say much around these parts anymore, but when he does it's something of true value to say. It's a shame he left the KGB, and it's a shame so many of them have animosity towards us, it'd sort of be nice to have a reliable ally in Darkfall rather than a friendly rivalry. BoS Archon

Re: Why does KGB continue JetStar #14849 01/20/07 01:42 PM
Joined: Dec 2005 Posts: 2,929 Donk's gf's house Crimthan KGB Supreme Knight
Crimthan KGB Supreme Knight Joined: Dec 2005 Posts: 2,929 Donk's gf's house	Some of my random thoughts: 1. Zerg = Large unorganized rabble. Whether this is what KGB has or has not done in the past, it should strive to avoid this and have strong forward-offensive leadership placed in PVP games - and followers should FOLLOW orders. Hippy day can happen once the battle is over. 2. Judging by what Ganshauk has stated, he is quite obviously pretentious and likes to hear himself speak. "I hated you guys" and "I ran with some mean SOB's back then...". Yes, everyone toots their own horn once in a while, but when approaching a leader from seemingly out of nowhere, why would he even bother bringing some of that stuff up? Who gives a rat's ass how he viewed or felt about KGB? I'm not even big into guild politics and I can see that this character's diplomacy and statesmanship are negligible. However, how he expresses himself toward KGB did bring up an issue/idea: If KGB wants to survive as a Guild in MMOPVP, then the focus should be on; "Are we respected?" more than "Are we liked?" Regardless of either of those questions, KGB should always be trusted, considering the word "Knight" is in the title. 3. The fact that this guy has hated KGB tells me that he either respects KGB enough to invite us into a server and see what happens, or less likely; he's itching for KGB to go down the same as UDL did on his server. 4. I noticed that some people have brought up the "PK" and "Anti-PK" thing concerning the matter. PK = Player Killer. However, when a game avatar/character dies, the player is still very much alive. The acronym is misleading. Then you have "Anti-PKs." People that are against the killing of players. Very misleading. When UO began, it was among some of the first times most of KGB members (past or present) began online gaming - for real... and were exposed to players who randomly killed other player's characters. After a while the whole "red and blue" concept emerged. "Us vs Them." So now you had Reds always being the bad guys and non-reds looking to vindicate themselves against the reds. But both were still killing each other. What I am getting at is this: The whole red and blue concept is now outdated and bullshit. It's black and white. NOTHING in life, or in gaming, is black and white - no matter how hard game designers develop mechanics to attempt this. Yes, in WOW you had Horde vs Alliance. But you still had pricks on the Alliance side screwing over other alliance...and getting away with it. In games that KGB folk appear to be focused on, there will no longer be "red and blue" or black and white bs. So it's best to put that in the past. What WILL happen are various nations struggling for power. Some will ally with others. Some will conquer others. Some will destroy themselves from within through distrust, lack of discipline, and petty squabbling. The silliest thing though, is that Some will call themselves "Good" and some will call themselves "Evil." WTF is that? Gradeschool gaming? Most or all of us are adults now. Good is not good because it says it is. The same goes for evil. Goodness comes from how well other nations trust you - whether they are enemies or not. This may sound vague, but it isn't. Allies will believe you good because they trust your word. Enemies would believe KGB good by viewing how KGB deals with it's allies and how well we are trusted by them. That's as far as you can take the concept of "Good and Evil" in a Game of Thrones. For KGB to dominate or at least thrive in MMOPVP games, it is going to need to hold on to what honor it has earned, buck up, and be Proactive. Not Reactive. "Anti-PK" smacks of Reactivity. You will never win a battle or war through reactivity. Defense never gains the upper hand against enemies - it only holds the enemy at bay long enough to survive. A wise general will always be one step ahead, causing the enemy to react. Thus a wise general holds most or all the cards. The enemy, being forced to react, will have plans only for countering attacks, rather than spearheading his own designs. In a world of uncertainty, it is best to be the Eagle/Wolf/Bear what-have-you, on the offensive, than it is to be the Turtle, hiding in its shell, waiting to die. For more information on this philosophy, consult the "Art of War" by Sun Tzu - it is perhaps the most useful and practical guidebook to winning battles and wars. 5. I hope what I wrote above may answer "How can KGB continue to exist?" since many others have already answered how it has managed to exist thus far. However, if that email would have been sent to me, I would simply reply: "I appreciate the invitation to your server. I may have some people look into it." Then I would say no more and indeed, send some people over to look into the server... Without further thought on the matter. Ok, I'm done and am going to go watch a movie with Emily (Ironrose). Good day...

Re: Why does KGB continue Crimthan #14850 01/20/07 03:16 PM
Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 4,653 Likes: 6 Derid Chief Justice KGB Supreme Court
Derid Chief Justice KGB Supreme Court Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 4,653 Likes: 6	I remember playing Starcraft.... my Zerging was actually always very organized ^_^ In any case, regarding your points about PK/anti-PK and proactivity we have been a step or 2 ahead of that for some time. No worries on that regard, trust me when I say modern KGB actually has similar Rules of Engagement to many other PvP oriented guilds. Waaaaaaay back in UO, you had the unique phenominae of people wishing to play MMO EQ-style for loot, or just with their friends who had no interest in killing or being killed. It was "the" graphical MUD so to speak, and attempted to be a "world" in of itself, with the crafting etc. This created a compelling "good vs evil" RP scenario. That simply doesnt happen anymore. Games now are typically either limited PvP, to the point where it doesnt matter, or full-pvp and those who dont want PvP play non-PvP games. So now we simply RP "Knights". (in VERY VERY loose sense, of "RP") In fact the latest Constitution Revamp was at least partially to eliminate more holdover from the UO days. Things were different back then, and KGB as a whole, including its leadership is and has been highly cognizant of that fact.

Re: Why does KGB continue Derid #14851 01/21/07 09:53 AM
Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 2,576 Likes: 13 Utah Owain KGB Supreme Knight King's High Council
Owain KGB Supreme Knight King's High Council Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 2,576 Likes: 13 Utah	PK or player killer accurately, in my opinion, describes the difference between people who hunt non-player characters and player characters. It was the unprovoked grief style of game play that sparked the pk/anti-pk feud in UO. True, the KGB were technically PKs as well, but it was the choice of targets that distinguished us from the murderers, and among the majority of people in UO, the name of the KGB was honored and respected. The trash talk comes from the murderers, not the common people. Many times while at the Bank in Britain, I would have people thank me for the work the KGB did in opposing the criminal elements in the game. So in spite of changes in game styles since UO, I still feel that the grief style of playing has no place in the KGB. Hopefully, when Darkfall is released, we'll see a return of clear cut 'good guys' and 'bad guys'. Much of the conflict in Darkfall will revolve around control and conquest of territory, but this is nothing new to the KGB even back in UO days. One of the first wars the KGB participated in on UO Siege Perilous between the KGB and the Imperium began over a dispute over territory; the Imperium laid claim to territory controlled by the KGB, and they attempted to violate KGB sovereignty. This was not a pk/anti-pk conflict, although initially the KGB was at a disadvantage due to UOs reputation system, since the Imperium would not accept a guild war, and used our own laws against going red against us. The development of the KGB Marshall program was our initial response to work around game mechanisms regarding murderers, while retaining the honor of the KGB. It is not clear what system Darkfall will have regarding pvp and reputation. Whatever comes, I do not want to see the KGB forsake our heritage or our honor, and become yet another griefer guild, killing newbs, lumberjacks, or miners, for example. It goes without saying that enemies of the KGB will be slain whenever possible, no quarter given. But those with whom we have no quarrel should have nothing to fear from the KGB. Indeed, peaceful travelers should fall under the protection of the KGB. This is how the KGB has gained citizens and allies in the past, and that is how I would like to see us continue in the future. For the honor of the KGB... To the everlasting glory of the infantry... Owain ab Arawn KGB Supreme Knight King's High Council

Re: Why does KGB continue Owain #14852 01/21/07 10:14 AM
Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 4,653 Likes: 6 Derid Chief Justice KGB Supreme Court
Derid Chief Justice KGB Supreme Court Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 4,653 Likes: 6	To early to say TBH. Honestly I've been thinking it will be closer to SB/EvE where people who arent your friends or NAPed will probably all be trying to kill you, after all its a game for PvPers. But who knows. It just depends on how the community evolves, and if they do end up going with a Rep system, in which case there may be a meaningfull Faction-based community so to speak. We'll find out in beta I presume, which is when the RoE for release will be first developed.

Re: Why does KGB continue Owain #14853 01/21/07 01:14 PM
Joined: Dec 2005 Posts: 2,929 Donk's gf's house Crimthan KGB Supreme Knight
Crimthan KGB Supreme Knight Joined: Dec 2005 Posts: 2,929 Donk's gf's house	Quote: Hopefully, when Darkfall is released, we'll see a return of clear cut 'good guys' and 'bad guys'. I'm hoping this doesn't happen. Not because I like to grief players by killing miners and other ludicrous targets, but because most times in war; there are no good guys and bad guys - only victors, losers, and the jackals waiting on the side. A dynamic world is much more exciting than one made up of axis vs allies or alliance vs horde. Quote: The development of the KGB Marshall program was our initial response to work around game mechanisms regarding murderers, while retaining the honor of the KGB. This sounds situational - depending on the type of enemy KGB are fighting. Certain measures are always needed to fight against those who would exploit the goodness of an honorable nation. Quote: Whatever comes, I do not want to see the KGB forsake our heritage or our honor, and become yet another griefer guild, killing newbs, lumberjacks, or miners, for example. It goes without saying that enemies of the KGB will be slain whenever possible, no quarter given. But those with whom we have no quarrel should have nothing to fear from the KGB. Indeed, peaceful travelers should fall under the protection of the KGB. This is how the KGB has gained citizens and allies in the past, and that is how I would like to see us continue in the future. Even in a dynamic world, KGB can still retain honor through trust and respect, as you've stated above, and I've stated in my previous post. The random Killing of lumberjacks and miners is usually a sign of dishonor and weakness - unless you're raiding an obvious enemy while they're trying to attain resources before launching an attack on KGB, or before KGB launches an attack on their stronghold. And yep, I totally agree that an enemy should be treated with little or no mercy. Personally, I loved how it was in Shadowbane. An enemy one day could be an ally the next, or vice versa. It was completely player-enforced. You remembered a name of someone who killed you - and in DFO or AOC, hopefully you could place a bounty on their head, etc. The whole blue vs red thing is too elementary for my taste.

Re: Why does KGB continue Crimthan #14854 01/22/07 07:22 AM
Joined: Oct 2006 Posts: 1,720 Dunlop_Phaete Band 7
Dunlop_Phaete Band 7 Joined: Oct 2006 Posts: 1,720	well Said, all. Former KGB Member

Re: Why does KGB continue Dunlop_Phaete #14855 01/27/07 07:49 AM
Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 816 USA Raekwon KGB Arch Duke
Raekwon KGB Arch Duke Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 816 USA	Just got back from R&R to Australia so my response is a bit late, but many of you said exactly what had to be said... so i'll add one small thought. He said that we developed "the zerg" before the term was even coined. Which I personally took as a compliment because he said "zerg" but like others have posted, anyone who gets owned by a large group calls it a zerg. So if this guy ever sat down and thought about it he would realize what KGB developed very early on in MMORPG history was the strategy of using a large group of players in an Organized manner. A concept known to the real world for a very long time but in Ultima Online it was new as most just ran around in 5 man gank squads; see http://www.thenoobcomic.com/daily/strip068.html as reference. That is why I took his message as a great compliment... he as one of our enemies even agrees that KGB was one of the original MMORPG guilds to use organized armies. As for how to respond Jet, probably giving him the silent treatment would be best. Sounds like he has his own little crappy/ugly game that he manipulates and cheats in to make himself feel uber while purposely causing well known guilds that he's lured into playing it to lose. That way he go around spamming forums talking about how "KGB tried out my game and failed! they suxxorz!!111!!" but in truth we were doomed to fail in the game from the start... why would he allow us to win? And even if we did win what would we gain from it? certainly not increased creditability in the MMO community, we can only get that through games like Eve, AoC, DF, etc. "It's not enough to win... others have to lose." -Stephen Colbert 'Colbert Report' Hall of Fame record

Re: Why does KGB continue Raekwon #14856 01/28/07 05:05 AM
Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 1,089 Likes: 3 Cleveland Represent KGB Supreme Knight
Represent KGB Supreme Knight Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 1,089 Likes: 3 Cleveland	I cant say alot that hasn't been said already But i cannot lie lol we did zerg and do it hard in some places but thats not always the case but we cannot avoid the term (ZERG) our player base is to large for some guilds out there to not say hey thats one big ass guild lol.......... with that said its not to mention we've been hit just as hard by some other guilds/nations out there during our gaming experiances I continue to play with KGB because this is the only true guild i ever seen anywhere 10 years +++ and we got a great bunch of core members to chill with and i don't ever see that changing I Am The Storm. Represent de KGB www.The-KGB.com

Re: Why does KGB continue Slinger #14857 02/03/07 11:16 PM
Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 224 Likes: 1 Dcengr KGB Supreme Knight King's High Council
Dcengr KGB Supreme Knight King's High Council Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 224 Likes: 1	We're not following for that trojan laced game.

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