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#145245 - 04/21/18 04:22 PM Is the left eating itself?  
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My answer also aligns with this - modern left is regressive and reactionary. As a classical liberal, I found myself marginalized by prudish, censorious, reactionaries that call themselves "Left" these days. Even on this forum these bad actors had influence and say.


#145250 - 04/22/18 02:33 PM Re: Is the left eating itself? [Re: Sini]  
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That's a good video, and I'm happy that some people on the left are finally taking cognizance of the problem.


For who could be free when every other man's humour might domineer over him? - John Locke (2nd Treatise, sect 57)
#145252 - 04/23/18 11:23 PM Re: Is the left eating itself? [Re: Derid]  
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Originally Posted by Derid
That's a good video, and I'm happy that some people on the left are finally taking cognizance of the problem.


Do I still count as "people on the left" in your book?


#145253 - 04/24/18 02:33 AM Re: Is the left eating itself? [Re: Sini]  
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Originally Posted by Sini
Originally Posted by Derid
That's a good video, and I'm happy that some people on the left are finally taking cognizance of the problem.


Do I still count as "people on the left" in your book?


I didn't intend it literally, as in finally one person - but rather in the sense that people who attend public left wing forums and create widely watched videos are starting to push back on the issue. To answer more directly, yes I generally consider you as someone more or less on the left side of things... though I wouldn't necessarily pin you as a hard leftist, simply because current state of American political discourse as well as the general etymological state of things is so completely absurd that such labels themselves have lost much of their meaning.

Our current state of civilization prompts me to recall a quote from Confucius's Analects remarking on precisely this issue:

"If names be not correct, language is not in accordance with the truth of things. If language be not in accordance with the truth of things, affairs cannot be carried on to success. When affairs cannot be carried on to success, proprieties and music do not flourish. When proprieties and music do not flourish, punishments will not be properly awarded. When punishments are not properly awarded, the people do not know how to move hand or foot. Therefore a superior man considers it necessary that the names he uses may be spoken appropriately, and also that what he speaks may be carried out appropriately. "


For who could be free when every other man's humour might domineer over him? - John Locke (2nd Treatise, sect 57)
#145264 - 04/28/18 12:42 PM Re: Is the left eating itself? [Re: Sini]  
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This position is highly controversial on the left. That is, many will be worked into a froth at mere suggestion that we shouldn't lightly apply Racist label to things that merely proximal to racism. Having discussion on race is a highly taboo behavior and orthodoxy of "race is a social construct" is zealously protected.

This is just one of the areas of 'eating itself', where anything but public displays of right-thinking would get someone shamed and expelled from the Left ranks. Personally, I have been "eaten" many times at this point, where I am actively looking at saner (e.g. libertarians) groups of people to align on specific priorities or values (e.g. freedom of speech).

So personally, I don't even know if I consider myself left anymore.


#145268 - 04/30/18 09:41 AM Re: Is the left eating itself? [Re: Sini]  
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I'll take the bait. The suggested tiptoeing around the imaginary right wing snowflake whose pure ideology holds no bigoted intention is both a disservice to the real effects of their rhetoric, and to the efficacy of the only remaining arena in which impactful debate can still be formed, after indulging one participant in their desire to shed the burden of accepting facts and figures when forming ideology (e.g. voter ID laws)


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#145269 - 04/30/18 09:48 AM Re: Is the left eating itself? [Re: Sini]  
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The action of students at Evergreen was shameful, but far less so than those of the Goldwater campaign and architects of the Southern strategy. Both should engage in penance commensurate with the damage dealt


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#145271 - 04/30/18 08:19 PM Re: Is the left eating itself? [Re: rhaikh]  
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Originally Posted by rhaikh
The action of students at Evergreen was shameful, but far less so than those of the Goldwater campaign and architects of the Southern strategy. Both should engage in penance commensurate with the damage dealt


Even if we accept this as true (which I don't, the spirit of both actions is the same even if the scale differs in regards to the examples used. In fact, the SJWs are basically attempting to engage in precisely the same behaviors you speak of, using the flimsy excuse of "they did it first" - calling them reactionary and regressive is no accident and quite accurate.) there is a major difference between the old Southern Strategy GOP architects and modern day SJWs: the old pols are long dead from old age.

Either old resentments and actions are something to move past, or they are something to justify yet a new generation of wrongs. It is clear that the 'new left' is mostly bent on abandoning the spirit of (though they will still hypocritically parrot the words of) figures like MLK, and are pursuing the latter.


For who could be free when every other man's humour might domineer over him? - John Locke (2nd Treatise, sect 57)
#145272 - 04/30/18 08:33 PM Re: Is the left eating itself? [Re: rhaikh]  
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Originally Posted by rhaikh
I'll take the bait. The suggested tiptoeing around the imaginary right wing snowflake whose pure ideology holds no bigoted intention is both a disservice to the real effects of their rhetoric, and to the efficacy of the only remaining arena in which impactful debate can still be formed, after indulging one participant in their desire to shed the burden of accepting facts and figures when forming ideology (e.g. voter ID laws)


Seems like you actually believe that every Republican is racist, and aren't shy about sharing that view. When a Democrat passes/signs legislation that leads to mass minority incarceration or similar, (ie; Clinton) is it not racist, simply because you generally align with the party?


For who could be free when every other man's humour might domineer over him? - John Locke (2nd Treatise, sect 57)
#145273 - 04/30/18 08:45 PM Re: Is the left eating itself? [Re: Sini]  
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What a worthless, low effort retort.

Scale matters, and history matters. To move past the racist history of the Republican party, they need to show something resembling remorse. What they've done instead, consistently since Nixon, is double down on the Southern strategy's play of stopping just on the other side of cutting out the Actual Racism from their dog whistle policies. They vote for a racist president, they happily take collection from certified racists, they present policies which measurably and surgically serve to disenfranchise minorities, they downplay the prevalence of racism - and the punchline is they get injured when we call it for what it is.

All the students involved in Evergreen should take a 10 hour lecture on freedom of speech and academic freedom.

All members of the Republican party should dissolve or acknowledge everything they've done to empower racism.


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