Knights of Glory and Beer

Serving the online community since 1997

Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate This Thread
Page 18 of 21 1 2 16 17 18 19 20 21
#142366 - 12/07/17 02:03 AM Re: GOP internal civil war [Re: Owain]  
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 4,948
Sini Offline
KGB Supreme Court Justice
KGB Paladin
Sini  Offline
KGB Supreme Court Justice
KGB Paladin
**

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 4,948
Originally Posted by Owain
Too many syllables?


No, too much bullshit.

Lets read that article together. Here is the link you provided.

Wikipedia on Investors.com
Quote
During the 2016 presidential election in the U.S., IBD was one of two polls that consistently showed Donald Trump in the lead.


So they are either best pollsters in the US, or true believers. Fact checkers give them right-leaning rating, with mixed factuals.

So what do they say?

Quote
How did Trump do? "While there have been some hiccups, overall the Trump administration is on track to finish the first phase (of his regulatory reform program) with $645 million in net annual regulatory savings."


Net regulatory savings. Well, they are speaking budget here. So cutting IRS budget to 0$ would also be a net regulatory saving. However, net regulatory saving says nothing about net effect on economy.

Quote
That might not sound like much in a federal budget usually denominated in the trillions of dollars. But consider this: During President Obama's years in office, more than 22,700 regulations were imposed on Americans at an astounding cost to American consumers, businesses and workers of "more than $120 billion each and every year," wrote Heritage Foundation Fellow Diane Katz earlier this year.


Sounds awful, right? $120 billion each year. Wait, according to whom? Heritage Foundation . Some key people there are part of Trump's team. So this is according to people close to Trump.

So what do they say? They actually say any of what article claims? Here is "study" that is being cited. It isn't peer reviewed, so it is survey or whitepaper at best. However, $120 billion is cited to another Heritage "study". Only there numbers, if you read tables, are only $22 billion a year, and $176 is total since 2001 , and that is total impact of all regulation per year.

Clearly, "more than $120 billion each and every year" is not true according to their own sources. So this figure is misused and misrepresented despite being produced by the same organization. Bad information. Bad "study".

Lets keep reading.

Quote
We're not singling out Obama here, although he was particularly bad by whatever gauge you might care to use. Even so, Democrats and Republicans alike have pledged to reduce the regulatory burden, but very little ever got done.


So they are now actually saying it wasn't all Obama. It was also people before Obama. Another way to understand this is that Obama's administration approach to regulation wasn't atypical.

Lets keep reading.

Quote
That's why AAF analyst Dan Goldbeck was prompted to write, "From almost any perspective, President Trump's Executive Order 13,771, Reducing Regulation and Controlling Regulatory Costs, marked one of the most significant developments in regulatory policy in decades," adding that it was the "first time in United States history that the executive branch has established a regulatory budget."


Does Dan say any of this? Apparently yes, but there is key detail missing from the quote:

Quote
OMB spelled out the rules affected by the order. The core parameters are as follows:

* Agencies only need to tally up final rules published after noon on January 20, 2017.
* The EO only applies to executive agency rules that the Office of Information and Regulatory Affairs (OIRA) deem to be “significant” under EO 12,866.
* It exempts rules related to direct national security or emergency concerns and those explicitly directed by a judicial or statutory mandate.
* Agencies can, via written requests to OMB, transfer savings from other agencies.
* Agencies can include savings from legislatively repealed or revised rules. Thus, they can use savings from such actions as the 14 rules repealed by under the Congressional Review Act (CRA) earlier this year.
* If an agency is not in compliance by the end of the fiscal year, they must submit a report to OMB detailing how they plan on coming into compliance. There do not appear to be any significant sanctions for non-compliance thus far.


So turns out, this massive deregulation executive order is asking all agencies to voluntarily scrap not yet implemented rules. Trump would call this FAKE NEWS.

Nothing in your article credibly estimates impact on markets. They only attempt was misquoting or misrepresenting their own data.





#142367 - 12/07/17 02:11 AM Re: GOP internal civil war [Re: Sini]  
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 4,948
Sini Offline
KGB Supreme Court Justice
KGB Paladin
Sini  Offline
KGB Supreme Court Justice
KGB Paladin
**

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 4,948
If you are actually interested in finding out what is going on with regulations, try this tracker:

https://www.brookings.edu/interactives/tracking-deregulation-in-the-trump-era/


#142370 - 12/07/17 03:03 AM Re: GOP internal civil war [Re: Sini]  
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,837
Owain Online
KGB Senator
KGB Supreme Knight
Owain  Online
KGB Senator
KGB Supreme Knight

***

Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,837
Utah
Well, performance is what counts. For eight years, we suffered from anemic economic performance under the Obama administration, which finished 2016 at 1.8% gdp growth.

Trump is elected, and among other things, promised to reduce the government regulatory burden to stimulate the economy. He follows through on his promise, and a year later, the economy expands at 3%+ rate for 3 successive quarters, the best performance in 12 years.

So, instead if celebrating the improved performance in the economy, the left complains because it is happening during a Republican administration.

What kind of assholes do that?

Liberal assholes, that's who.

Last edited by Owain; 12/07/17 03:41 AM.

To the everlasting glory of the infantry...

Owain ab Arawn
KGB Senator
#142373 - 12/07/17 02:33 PM Re: GOP internal civil war [Re: Sini]  
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 611
Goriom Offline
KGB Senator
KGB Master Knight
Goriom  Offline
KGB Senator
KGB Master Knight

*****

Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 611
New York
One person makes claims and provides sources to back them up.

the other person uses their "feelings" and resorts to name calling.

hmmm

#142375 - 12/07/17 03:09 PM Re: GOP internal civil war [Re: Sini]  
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,837
Owain Online
KGB Senator
KGB Supreme Knight
Owain  Online
KGB Senator
KGB Supreme Knight

***

Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,837
Utah
[Linked Image]


To the everlasting glory of the infantry...

Owain ab Arawn
KGB Senator
#142376 - 12/07/17 03:55 PM Re: GOP internal civil war [Re: Owain]  
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,504
Derid Offline
Chief Justice
KGB Supreme Court
Derid  Offline
Chief Justice
KGB Supreme Court

****

Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,504
Originally Posted by Owain
Well, performance is what counts. For eight years, we suffered from anemic economic performance under the Obama administration, which finished 2016 at 1.8% gdp growth.

Trump is elected, and among other things, promised to reduce the government regulatory burden to stimulate the economy. He follows through on his promise, and a year later, the economy expands at 3%+ rate for 3 successive quarters, the best performance in 12 years.

So, instead if celebrating the improved performance in the economy, the left complains because it is happening during a Republican administration.

What kind of assholes do that?

Liberal assholes, that's who.


I think it's more analogous to a village chief in ancient times, that sacrificed his people to the "gods" with the promise that it would rain. Sometimes, after said sacrifice, it would in fact rain.

Crediting Trump with any economic improvement is like crediting Obama with the great crash. Or even laying credit for the crash solely on Bush, because the seeds were sown during Clinton. I really wish people would stop examining the world's phenomena solely through partisan lenses, the universe doesn't care about anyone's politics. It moves on it's own principles.

I checked some of those articles linked earlier, it was all opinion/editorial.

Look, it doesn't matter how much you like Trump. The fact is something as large and interconnected as an economy doesn't move quickly. It isn't agile. Even where various markets have seemingly sudden ups and downs, that is a result of many years of accumulating circumstances. I'll also note a recurring criticism I toted during the Obama admin during the "recovery" - that is, the way GDP is measured now includes a great many things that actually do not reflect generated wealth. It's quite possible for GDP to grow, without reflecting significant gains in most of the Main st economy.

Is that the case here? Although it looks like it at a glance, I am not totally sure. Our political situation and long term economic outlook has been too depressing the past couple of years for me to really go through the numbers and cobble together an actual analysis. Regardless, if it is the case, it would be something influenced by Obama-era policies, not Trump. Because the same principle applies whether discussing positive or negative developments - that is, it takes time for policy to influence the real world on a large scale.


For who could be free when every other man's humour might domineer over him? - John Locke (2nd Treatise, sect 57)
#142378 - 12/07/17 04:58 PM Re: GOP internal civil war [Re: Sini]  
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,837
Owain Online
KGB Senator
KGB Supreme Knight
Owain  Online
KGB Senator
KGB Supreme Knight

***

Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,837
Utah
It guess it must be entirely by coincidence that we had flat growth under Obama for 8 years, and as soon as Trump was elected and reduced regulatory burdens that stifle business, we suddenly see better performance than has been seen in 12 years.

Is it any wonder that Democrats are experiencing an electoral collapse nation wide? Voters are not buying that nonsense.


To the everlasting glory of the infantry...

Owain ab Arawn
KGB Senator
#142380 - 12/08/17 02:36 AM Re: GOP internal civil war [Re: Sini]  
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 4,948
Sini Offline
KGB Supreme Court Justice
KGB Paladin
Sini  Offline
KGB Supreme Court Justice
KGB Paladin
**

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 4,948
Owain, we should go back to talking about your feelings. Everything else simply doesn't support your position. Both facts and attribution of facts are plain wrong.

The facts paint bleak picture - both deregulation and tax reform on the balance will end up hurting Main Street. Not right away, as economy moves slowly, but eventually. This is because like Communism, trickle-down simply doesn't work. Especially when you have to deficit spend to do it.

If you actually followed the link I provided (https://www.brookings.edu/interactives/tracking-deregulation-in-the-trump-era/), on the balance it hurts everyday guys. Sure, some of it is simply great, like the Lowering Renewable Fuel Standards (less ethanol in fuel, fuck yeah!) but then there are Internet Privacy Rule repeal (Nullification of a rule requiring internet service providers to explicitly obtain customers' approval to use and share their information), Firearms Prohibition for the Mentally Disabled (Nullification of a rule prohibiting the possession of firearms by the mentally ill), and so on.



#142381 - 12/08/17 02:51 AM Re: GOP internal civil war [Re: Sini]  
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,837
Owain Online
KGB Senator
KGB Supreme Knight
Owain  Online
KGB Senator
KGB Supreme Knight

***

Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,837
Utah
Well, I guess we'll just have to see how things develop going forward. If the last three quarters were a fluke, we'll find out soon enough. If the economy continues to accelerate, I'm sure you guys will be the first to congratulate the President, because only liberal assholes would criticize the President for succeeding to improve things for all Americans.

If you don't it won't matter, because voters will reward the President and the Republican party themselves.


To the everlasting glory of the infantry...

Owain ab Arawn
KGB Senator
#142385 - 12/08/17 05:50 PM Re: GOP internal civil war [Re: Sini]  
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 611
Goriom Offline
KGB Senator
KGB Master Knight
Goriom  Offline
KGB Senator
KGB Master Knight

*****

Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 611
New York
[Linked Image]

Page 18 of 21 1 2 16 17 18 19 20 21

Page Time: 0.020s Queries: 16 (0.008s) Memory: 3.1482 MB (Peak: 3.2577 MB) Zlib disabled. Server Time: 2017-12-15 06:06:06 UTC