The KGB Oracle Forums General Public Discussion (PUBLIC) The Pub The wise words of Ben Stein

I got this email yesterday, and although as a Christian I dont agree with what the Jewish religion belives, I do think that everything he is saying here is completely true about our country today. Its a sad but true reality.




I do not know of him at all, many folks think Ben Stein is just a quirky actor/comedian who talks in a monotone. He's also a very intelligent attorney who knows how to put ideas and words together in such a way as to sway juries and make people think clearly. The following was written by Ben Stein and recited by him on CBS Sunday Morning Commentary, Sunday, 12/18/05.

Herewith at this happy time of year, a few confessions from my beating heart: I have no clue who Nick and Jessica are. I see them on the cover of People and Us constantly when I am buying my dog biscuits and kitty litter I often ask the checkers at the grocery stores. They never know who Nick and Jessica are either. Who are they? Will it change my life if I know who they are and why they have broken up? Why are they so important?

I don't know who Lindsay Lohan is either, and I do not care at all about Tom Cruise's wife.

Am I going to be called before a Senate committee and asked if I am a subversive? Maybe, but I just have no clue who Nick and Jessica are.

If this is what it means to be no longer young, it's not so bad.

Next confession:
I am a Jew, and every single one of my ancestors was Jewish. And it does not bother me even a little bit when people call those beautiful lit up, bejeweled trees Christmas trees. I don't feel threatened. I don't feel discriminated against That's what they are: Christmas trees.

It doesn't bother me a bit when people say, "Merry Christmas" to me I don't think they are slighting me or getting ready to put me in a ghetto. In fact, I kind of like it. It shows that we are all brothers and sisters celebrating this happy time of year. It doesn't bother me at all that there is a manger scene on display at a key intersection near my beach house in Malibu. If people want a creche, it's just as fine with me as is the Menorah a few hundred yards away.

I don't like getting pushed around for being a Jew, and I don't think Christians like getting pushed around for being Christians. I think people who believe in God are sick and tired of getting pushed around, period. I have no idea where the concept came from that America is an explicitly atheist country. I can't find it in the Constitution, and I don't like it being shoved down my throat.

Or maybe I can put it another way: where did the idea come from that we should worship Nick and Jessica and we aren't allowed to worship God as we understand Him?

I guess that's a sign that I'm getting old, too.

But there are a lot of us who are wondering where Nick and Jessica came from and where the America we knew went to.

In light of the many jokes we send to one another for a laugh, this is a little different: This is not intended to be a joke; it's not funny, it's intended to get you thinking.

Billy Graham's daughter was interviewed o n the Early Show and Jane Clayson asked her "How could God let something like this Happen?" (regarding Katrina)

Anne Graham gave an extremely profound and insightful response. She said, "I believe God is deeply saddened by this, just as we are, but for years we've been telling God to get out of our schools, to get out of our government and to get out of our lives.

And being the gentleman He is, I believe He has calmly backed out. How can we expect God to give us His blessing and His protection if we demand He leave us alone?"

In light of recent events...terrorists attack, school shootings, etc. I think it started when Madeleine Murray O'Hare (she was murdered, her body found recently) complained she didn't want prayer in our schools, and we said OK.

Then someone said you better not read the Bible in school . The Bible says thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not steal, and love your neighbor as yourself. And we said OK.

Then Dr. Benjamin Spock said we shouldn't spank our children when they misbehave because their little personalities would be warped and we might damage their self-esteem (Dr. Spock's son committed suicide). We said an expert should know what he's talking about. And we said OK.

Now we're asking ourselves why our children have no conscience, why they don't know right from wrong, and why it doesn't bother them to kill strangers, their classmates, and themselves.

Probably, if we think about it long and hard enough, we can figure it out. I think it has a great deal to do with "WE REAP WHAT WE SOW."

Funny how simple it is for people to trash God and then wonder why the world's going to hell.

Funny how we believe what the newspapers say, but question what the Bible says.

Funny how you can send 'jokes' through e-mail and they spread like wildfire but when you start sending messages regarding the Lord, people think twice about sharing.

Funny how lewd, crude, vulgar and obscene articles pass freely through cyberspace, but public discussion of God is suppressed in the school and workplace.

Are you laughing?

Funny how when you forward this message, you will not send it to many on your address list because you're not sure what they believe, or what they will think of you for sending it. (Wrong! I'm sending to everyone on my list)

Funny how we can be more worried about what other people think of us than what God thinks of us.

Pass it on if you think it has merit. If not then just discard it.. no one will know you did. But, if you discard this thought process, don't sit back and complain about what bad shape the world is in.

I have a fair bit to say about this post, some of which I agree with, some of which I strongly disagree with.

However it's been my experience that religous debate while a very interesting topic, can easily lead to people getting very upset and annoyed with each other.

Are we all open minded enough to debate this in a friendly way? Or should we refrain from the discussion to avoid any risking of spoiling the great family we have here?

I won't flame it as much as want to, but I will say that all I got from this was the following:

-There were no natural disasters before atheism started to become more popular, nor terrorism, suicide, murder, or angst.

-You're forced to be on the internet, the same way you're forced to attend school.

-This one I truly do like; the holiday season is a time of rejoice, so people need to get a clue and calm down.

lol, better not Fleeting or your forum rating will drop from 3 stars to 2! Now that would be devastating.

I got this same email Chez. I really don't care how hard it twists some panties I thought it was the best email this season. Granted you don't see people throwing us to the lions now a days but the persecution is still heavy and it is everywhere.

DISCLAIMER:
Please note that the information included in this message reflect the practical experience, personal views and opinions of the High King. These views and opinions expressed herein do not state or reflect those of the The Knights of Glory and Beer (KGB) Government or any official agency or office thereof.

I have to chime in here. I certainly don't want to offend anyone, but here is my take on it.

You should be able to practise any religion you want in our great country, BUT don't force it on me. There is a reason our constitution provides a separation of Church and State.

I consider myself an agnostic. I believe in a higher power, but do not feel it is defined. Its hard for me to watch the radical Christian right in our country today. In my many years spent as a Christian (in my younger days) I believed that it was about loving each other and forgiveness. Leave judgement to God and not to people like Pat Robertson.

The radical Christian right's views and actions were one of the things that ultimately pushed me away from the faith. If one looks into history, you will see that more people have been slaughtered in the name of religion than any other unnatural reason. I think you have to draw the line where people start taking the role as God. This means I have no right to judge your faith unless it hurts people. God, love, and faith are the exact opposite of hurting or persecuting someone. If everyone followed these ideals, just imagine what our world would be like today.

I used the radical Christian right as my example here, as it is my personal experience with that organization (I managed the conversion of a major chain of Christian churches from manual accounting to computerized accounting early in my career and the reality of what I saw was ultimately the reason that drove me from the faith). I think we have to apply this to all religions, as Radical Islam is a terrible example of what faith can become. Any God that allows you to slaughter others and blow up churches and mosques is not anyone or anything I respect or worship.

Today, I try to be a positive force in the universe. This is in line with what I consider to be "Good". I try to share my experience and good fortune with others and take part in donation and charity. If someone asks me, I share my faith with others.

Once again, if everyone did this, just imagine what the world would be.

As for the original post from Chez, it looks like someone got ahold of it in the forward chain. The tone changes from the beginning where it is very general to some pretty hard core Christian views, even quoting Billy Graham. Mr. Stein considers himself a Jew, but is advocating the Christian agenda.

My response is based on second half of the original post. I can agree with the first part.

(I am not signing this with my KGB signature as it is not an official statement)

MORE ON THE ORIGNAL POST:

I did a search on the original post and found that it has been altered. Take a look at http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/benstein2.asp

Below is the original text from Ben Stein:

Quote:

---

Herewith at this happy time of year, a few confessions
from my beating heart:
I have no freaking clue who Nick and Jessica are. I see
them on the cover of People and Us constantly when I
am buying my dog biscuits and kitty litter. I often ask
the checkers at the grocery stores. They never know
who Nick and Jessica are either. Who are they? Will it
change my life if I know who they are and why they
have broken up? Why are they so important? I don't
know who Lindsay Lohan is, either, and I do not care at
all about Tom Cruise's wife.
Am I going to be called before a Senate committee and
asked if I am a subversive? Maybe, but I just have no
clue who Nick and Jessica are. Is this what it means to
be no longer young. It's not so bad.
Next confession: I am a Jew, and every single one of my
ancestors was Jewish. And it does not bother me even a
little bit when people call those beautiful lit up,
bejeweled trees Christmas trees. I don't feel threatened.
I don't feel discriminated against. That's what they are:
Christmas trees. It doesn't bother me a bit when people
say, "Merry Christmas" to me. I don't think they are
slighting me or getting ready to put me in a ghetto. In
fact, I kind of like it. It shows that we are all brothers
and sisters celebrating this happy time of year. It
doesn't bother me at all that there is a manger scene on
display at a key intersection near my beach house in
Malibu. If people want a creche, it's just as fine with me
as is the Menorah a few hundred yards away.
I don't like getting pushed around for being a Jew and I
don't think Christians like getting pushed around for
being Christians. I think people who believe in God are
sick and tired of getting pushed around, period. I have
no idea where the concept came from that America is an
explicitly atheist country. I can't find it in the
Constitution and I don't like it being shoved down my
throat.
Or maybe I can put it another way: where did the idea
come from that we should worship Nick and Jessica and
we aren't allowed to worship God as we understand
Him?
I guess that's a sign that I'm getting old, too. But there
are a lot of us who are wondering where Nick and
Jessica came from and where the America we knew went
to.

---

In its original form, I actually agree with this completely.

Kind of funny how I really enjoyed the email right up until the faux additions started to kick in! ;-)