The KGB Oracle Forums KGB National Announcements, News, and Help The KGB Sentinel Proposal: Creation of the UGC

bad day to pick on Elph :O

Lot of good thoughts here. I have to agree with Raek that this type of alliance should be one based on valued opinions and 360 degree respect. However I also have to agree that in such an alliance, diplomatic goals must be aligned or you will insure failure. How this is accomplished is simple in theory, but very hard in practice. You must set clear standards and values for member states, and anyone wishing to join who doesnt display that set of standards and values simply cannot join.

What you hope to end up with is a group of very like-minded people who will work together naturally , rather than having to be forced to, as in a beuracracy, or coerced to, as in a system ruled only by opinions. In doing so you make it so that policies are easy to draw and enact, because most of the time 90% of the guilds will agree and work together wholeheartedly.

Now of course, even like minded people will have disagreements, and this is where valued opinions and 360 degree respect come into play. If guild A wants to war guild B, but its clear to the rest of the alliance that guild B has lots of friends who will smash guild A without the intercession of the alliance, drawing the alliance into some unwanted and prolonged struggle, then guild A should respect everyone's opinion and either not war, or war and die alone. In the latter case, it may eventually lead to that guild's dismissal from the alliance. Even though this may seem like something that will happen every day as it has in games like SB, if only guilds that meet the alliance standares are invited, it should, in fact, be rare.

Having said all that, I think alliances/coalitions/whatever you want to call them are a good thing, especially in large free for all pvp games. I think JetStar would be perfect for setting up and guiding such a group, and I think the KGB would be a good model to emulate when setting standards for the alliance.

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I know alliances are crucial but I think the focus needs to be on KGB And not some massive alliances with other guilds that we would be in charge of. KGB needs to fix and maintain KGB first not some massive alliance.

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I do not however think that we should be the primary focus of any alliance, and certainly I do not think that the KGB should attempt to form a coalition with ourselves as its head. Everything needs to be balanced. Large decisions that affect everyone should be made by all the component guilds and their leaders/members, and everyone should be left to deal with their own internal politics. Wars should be fought together, with everyone contributing equally in terms of the resources they have available to contribute. And no member should ever be left to the dogs unless their own actions, against the rest of the alliance, brought that fate on them. Guilds that do not contribute or, after joining, prove that they do not live up to the values stated should be dismissed.

As for small guilds, I dont have much to say. I will say that I have seen small groups of very well organized people whip the crap out of many times over superior forces. If they want in, are able to contribute, and meet the set standards, then they should be let in. You just never know what guild of 10 may have the best pvpers, or individual LEADERS, who could potentially contribute more to the alliance than most of the larger guilds.

Discuss.

pgc worked great in uo but remember it was just started to fight a big group then it was broke apart. the last pgc even we still where not even done with the war when the leaders broke it off on both sides. shoot right after the move to sp we still fought the same guilds those of us that stayed on pacific.

Be wary the ghosts of the past, warriors lost to ruinous time.

I have been reading your discussions on this topic, and there is much wisdom in many of the arguments for and against the alliance of guilds.

I was a member of CQ for over 5 years and I am very knowledgeable in it's workings leading up to SB and COS. Though my playing time and resources tapered off not long after SB release I did beta and remained informed of some of our progress within SB.

Simply put COS was built on deception both by our own leadership and that of it's allies. Many core members were not aware of the activities of it's leadership or that of the other guilds. This deception is only part of the fractious nature of COS. Other issues which became even more of a problem was guild Identity, once you immurse yourself into an alliance your guilds identity can become diminished and fade, other problems become logistics for organization and mobilization of men and matierials, the problematic projection of force and become an issue also.

Getting people to the fight in a timely manner can cause alliances to splinter, not knowing whether you'll command full strength or be a hodge-podge of different people. You'll experience jelousy as members of other guilds or even those within your own guild want benefits and honors that have been set aside for spacific alliance members.

Like two spoiled children wanting attention from mom, factious fights and disabling logistics can be the undoing of an alliance.

My suggestion is making KGB.....FULL ON KGB first. Empower yourselves before any alliance is drawn up, learn the game, know all that you can, gain all you can build all you can and then when you have mastered not only the game but yourselves as well you'll be in a much stronger position to make proposals to others. But however you decide choose your allies wisely, for they become your reputaion as well as you ally and competition.

wow thanks for the advice !!

Nicely said Drakiis.

It would be ideal for us to offer such a UGC based on some of the aspects that have worked for us so well.

Providing a written "Ten Commandments" or "Constitution", while a punchline to some, makes it so everyone is on the same page and allows everyone to know they're as equal as the next guy.

Making sure the entire operation is transparent is key, particularly in this sort of environment.