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Yeah I got into the LotR beta a few days ago, and you're absolutely right, Crim, it's shit. Add the fact that there's not even the dim hope of PvP in the future, and what's the point.

I think Crim and I see eye to eye on this one, you can't just force people to play a game. That's the whole point, it's a game, not a job. It's meant to have fun, from my impressions of what I read on the forums, I don't see me enjoying Vanguard, I don't see anyone enjoying LotR (it's just an attempt to cash in on the franchise, there isn't really enough story in there for you character to participate in for it to even be enjoyable for the fans. It's just WoW in Middle Earth, you're not aiding the fellowship, you're just trying to level, clubbing wolf puppies or whatever.) I'm personally enjoying WoW for the third time now, but i know Crimthan would just find it insulting for us to make him play a game he hate so much for example. Although much of KGB enjoys Shadowbane, another large group doesn't. Same with EVE, or UO, or any other game like that. I think we should just remain patient.