Originally Posted By: Kaotic
Except that doesn't really work when the GOP's first offer was what Obama asked for before the election.


Obama was never offered the old budget in any official negotiations. During a press conference he was asked whether he'd start negotiations from that hard-fought compromise, and he explained the common sense reasons why he wouldn't.

I think the broader point you were trying to make is that the Democrats are equally complicit in the current political brinkmanship. Sure, the democrats negotiate with the full knowledge that they're in a position of power. Also, I've heard many democrats suggest we go over the cliff because the GOP has more to lose. I find this equally abhorrent. In general, however, there is only one party negotiating in good faith.

Originally Posted By: Derid
As in, those of us who generally think that Big Govt doesn't work and even makes things worse, and the problem is actually the spending of both parties.


So, I'd consider myself a true centrist if it weren't for the current state of the GOP. From my perspective, it's this unconciliatory view of government's role that's causing the most problems. I'd suggest government does work and has worked for hundreds of years. Further, I'd suggest we have no reasonable alternative for government that work in either the theoretical or practical.

Sure, I agree that in many circumstances less government intervention or oversight is preferable. However, the current GOP believes:

1) There is never a good solution to a problem via the means of government. While I could expound on counter-examples, I would simply state this leads to the GOP not even trying to solve problems or denying the existence of any.

2) There is no compromise, because to compromise is to be complicit in government. Unfortunately, this had lead to the GOP treating the other 50% of the electorate with contempt.

3) Since government is illegitimate, and the GOP has a governmental job, their job is never taken with respect or seriousness. This can been seen with increasely empty campaigns and ambivalence to government operations.

Political graft? Will always exist just like business fraud. Try to clean it up as much as possible; but don't throw the baby out with the bath water.

Last edited by TurkeyJ; 12/24/12 08:51 AM.