We are resource rich, and gold poor. With Derid's blessing, we are going to start selling raw iron and iron ingots to supplement gold to complete key structures in the City.

Iron donations are appreciated. We are getting 5g per ingot, and 2g per raw iron. These will be sold in the Dwarf lands to ensure we are not funding any local enemy.

Thanks!

Why not just offer the refined goods instead of the common material?

This way we get our people to skill up on the turning iron ore into iron ingots, and we get a higher sale price per unit of iron ore if we sell them as refined.

Iron Ore = 2gp

Iron Ingot = 5gp ( 2 iron ore = 1 ingot. hence we get approx 2.5 gold per iron ore instead of 2gp per iron ore)

With a messed up fail rate system I expect that even with a moderate skill in refining ore into ingots, we will still be making more gold per iron ore if we sold only the ingots.

When you start multiplying and leveraging this with a large volume of inventory in excess iron ore you begin to magnify the price return and get a good profit multiplier.

The difference being, if we sold 100 iron ore, we would get a flat 200 gold. No cost would be associated with this other then the time it took to mine, and the consumption of the pick axe. Since 99.9% of us don't waste money on buying pick axe's and get them from chests, the cost of the tool is moot.

Now, if we took that same 100 iron ore, and flipped it into ingots we could get a maximum of 50 iron ingots. Factoring in the failure rate we would probably end up with approx 43-48 iron ingots. This would give us between 215-225 gold for the same 100 iron ore, and be a 10% gain in gold.

We would as well reap the benefit of giving someone some more stats and skill in the iron ore to iron ingot process.

**Edit**
Forgot about the demand side of this equation until after I read my post. All crafted items that require iron, pretty much require the refined iron ingot, and not the base material. Especially anything worth crafting for clan advancement and supply. That being said, why give someone else the skill up and stat up on the turning of iron ore to ingots. I would think that the first choice if given ore or ingot for sale would be the ingot, due to it saving the purchaser time in refining.

Just a lunchtime thought, take it or leave it. Just trying to maximize our efforts, and my logic my be flawed due to missing some information.

I would prefer we stock our guild with iron since we need so damn much of it. The going rate for arrows is 10 gold per twenty arrows (in some cases higher). That is equal to 1 iron = 5 gold, 1 wood 5 gold. Much better profit if we do that not to mention we can help our own guys raise the bowyer skill.

If we sell arrows in stacks of 100 for 50 gold that can add up pretty fast and won't negate the gains we could get from the raw resources.

Lenny how far can you get Bowyer to on making arrows alone? I think he was at 40 something with never attempting a bow.

Just my 2 gold.



Also..... "Now, if we took that same 100 iron ore, and flipped it into ingots we could get a maximum of 50 iron ingots. Factoring in the failure rate we would probably end up with approx 43-48 iron ingots. This would give us between 215-225 gold for the same 100 iron ore, and be a 10% gain in gold."

It is actually less than that - 100 ore = 40 ingots w/o fail (2/5 ratio) fails are rare but you could argue 100 ore on average would equal 38 ingots. Not worth the trade off imo.

Gold isn't so easy to get, while resources (once we get the grove) will be a dime a dozen, so selling it is a good thing in my opinion.

You can go all the way by just making arrows Vyse, but it gets REALLY slow once you hit 30. Making bows are like 3x faster, but require additional leather, ignots (some special), wood, and even gold.

100 arrows is nothing, so that could work. It only takes a couple hours to make 1000, and usually it's only limited by how many wood axes I can get a hold of.

Yeah just to expand, we could get a lot more out of what we sell if we sell what we make rather than the raw resources. 50 iron ingots and 50 wood = 1000 arrows.

If you sell 1000 arrows for 500gp that is 5 gold per raw resource

If you sell 50 wood and 50 ingots raw, at 5 each you are looking at 500 gold as well, but no skill gain which imo is worth a lot.

It takes 20 seconds per 20 arrows, so 60 arrows per minute, 600 arrows in 10 minutes, 1200 arrows in 20 minutes, 3600 arrows an hour assuming you already have an overstock of resources. This to me is a much better usage of our resources.

That is 18,000 gold with an hour of making arrows.

You can argue that arrows would be harder to sell than raw resources but I doubt it will be much harder.

I know these #'s are unrealistic (especially the time part) but assuming you have people making arrows, people harvesting and people in the cities selling......it can be done.

I doubt you'd find a buyer for that quantity because arrows are so easy to obtain. Also, it seems a waste of resources that could be better spent leveling up our archers, or at thev ery least, turning those resources into buildings and or the like.

Rescoures are essentials that people need for buildings, arrows are almost a novelty because the only people that will be buying them are hybrids. (because if you go archer as primary, you HAVE to make your own arrows, because you go through a lot)

Then again, if you can find a buyer ... that sky's the limit. People have spent gold on dumber things.

I don't think it is a one stop shop solution. Diversify your sale items and you'll get more sales over all.

So turn some of the wood/iron into arrows; turn some of the iron into ingots; sell some of the iron raw; all of these will target different types of buyers. You can't imagine what people want to buy and why - just look at ebay! So sell all the bits and you'll get more flow. Just like mexican water through a first time tourist. wooosha!

if you want gold there are lots of mages in guild willing to buy the guild stock of Sulfer at 2g to 3g per. I'll buy all the guild has anytime...

Bone and ash for me - will buy

I don't need to buy sulfer, will just PK thomas after he buys the goods.

like a champion!!!

Now that we have a grove - I am all for selling my wood.......er our wood......er Jets wood.....ugh

your wrong, 5 iron ore gives you 2 iron ingots. SO for 100 you would get 40. So, the max you can get for the same 100 iron ore, for processed, would be 200 gold. People are paying a premium for unprocessed product, and i feel let them take the loss on processing it. In the end, the raw materials are a better sell for us, no matter what you say.

Now to those that are talking about keeping the resources for the guild, so crafters can gain skill, i aggree that in the future, the guild can give out resources, but i thought that our main concern was for building this city. I also feel, that crafters, if they want to level up, raw mats such as iron, wood should be gathered themselves, and parts of other mats can be given.

I have ranked up a lot of my skills, bowyer is 50+ and not one donation from the guild.

The grove is near useless, especially since it regrows so slowly and anyone under the sun can wipe it out; that is unless we can keep it for guild-stores only. Other than that, anyone can run it dry in half an hour flat. (if less, depending on where they hit it)

I was able to farm 600+ wood easily last night. Course I am on the other side of the world so people in the city were next to none. Syloc was there, Ken and a few others. Syloc got 450~ before his axe broke and I ganked him (in the guild bank bro). I turned in 180~ wood my first run and have another bunch once the server lets me log in... so its not waste I don't think.

Definately not looking for handouts - but later in the game it would be wise to power level (excuse the term) crafters if you have the resources. But I agree I have chopped, chipped, hacked everything of mine. I have traded for leather and last night Jet gave me some ore because I donated 500gold to the grove but other than that. Yeah if people are looking for handouts I hope it is noticed they aren't pulling their weight and the handouts stop. But those that are pulling their weight and donating lots to the guild bank I have no problem with giving them handouts (once established). It has been earned.

Anywho - what is the refresh rate on the grove? 3 hours? 5 hours? Anyone have a close #?

I think it refreshes in minutes, but only 1 timber at a time.

just out of curiousity what if, and this is a HUGE what if mind you, KGB wanted to build another city?

What if you destroy sun, and take Cairn?

Would not the resources you stock pile today save you a headache in the future? Think like the United States Government and thier stock pile of weapons.

i think we want to finish the city and start on other things, the sooner the better, not save resources for the future

we'll always be using resources.... wether to build another guard tower or create another war hulk/siege machine to crush anothers city.

How many groves can be placed, and can a grove be placed away from the entrance, more towards the interior of the city?

The thing is, we have everyone hitting the grove too much, so it never regrows that fast. (You ganked me? When did this happen? hehe Don't remember ever having that much wood! )

only one grove per city... from what I understand we can do a stone quarry and a garden, but no mine for the "iron".