Lots of have been saying this, include me now, for years now.

He's nailed it.

EXACTLY... it's the PUSSIFICATION of America! When you give people something that don't work for it, you breed in laziness, stupidity & greed!

I wonder how many Participation trophies Sinj has?

Me too but never quite with this much eloquent use of profanity.

Ha! Oh sooo true

I guess I need to work on my wordcraft a bit more cause I get too frustrated and it just all comes out rushed. Ass douchery just rolls off the tongue

One thing you conservative guys do not take in consideration is how many of those 1% got rich by the lack of government regulations.

How many of them 1% got rich by taking away jobs in your country to produce things and services out.

While I agree that is not fair just taxes more because you gain more, it's fair on my vision to tax more something that is earned by the lack of regulation, at expense of your countryman jobs and money(speculation) by puting the risk to population to pay.

How to tax the above?

On my vision Capitalism is not that you think the "Survival of the fittest", we need rules to that on general line of thiking.

While the majority of the people on the OWS has a wrong arguments there, they are speaking aloud something that they think is wrong, that's democracy.

I thank God/Universe/Allah/All Seeing Space Octopus/Buddha every single day that I don't live in a democracy.

I didnt understand, can you clarify?

Again... the TOP 1% pays nearly 50% of the TOTAL TAXES paid into the Government. Think about that for a minute... 1% has 50% responsibility of our taxes. This means 99% pays the rest, does that sound fair?

We need a NEW simple & fair tax system. All the left can do is bitch and whine that someone else has something they don't have instead of going to the root of the problem and that fixing our tax system.

You guys read what you want to read,
I said there is a part of the 1% that got rich and still getting money without any extra taxes by taking out jobs that would help your economy. While we can say people are being just reward for being clever, of cut jobs in USA to just profit more, like is the spirit of capitalism.

My comment has nothing to do with 1 paying 50%, that to me seems a lie, because your middle class is strong, here in brazil the middle class is only 20% of population but pays for 70% of total taxes.

It is not a lie (except for Wolfgang's rounding errors). It is a demonstrable fact that the top 25% (anything over about $62,000 per year)of wage earners in the U.S.A pay over 85% of the total taxes, and the top 1% pay nearly 40% of total income tax. So the top 1% pays 40% and the next 24% pay 45% leaving just 15% to be paid by the other 75% of the wage earners, most of whom pay $0 in income tax each year. Something like 47% of folks in this country receive some sort of government assistance. If you're on the government dole you're either paying very little in income tax or nothing at all.

To address your question directed at me Mithus, we do not live in a democracy. We live in a representative republic. A democracy is mob rule, which is what the asshats at OWS are advocating and what the morons is Egypt want. It will only lead to more and more increased chaos and eventually some leader will "have to step in and take over, benevolently of course, to get things settled down." Ask the folks living in Cuba how that's worked out for them.

Democracy, left to its own devices, very quickly devolves into rule by the largest mob with the most charismatic leader. Our founders recognized that and that is a large part of how we ended up with the system we have. A system, by the way, that has lead to the most progress and most opportunity for individual upward mobility the earth has ever known.

Read this... The top 1% pays nearly 50% of the taxes paid. The other 99% pay the rest, does that look fair? Tax loopholes are where it's at. Drop all loopholes, and drop the taxes as well. Then you will be closer to "FAIR" than we've ever been.

Taxes WILL NOT be "FAIR" until we scrap this tax system we have and bring in a new. Make the tax system simple, it's absolutely fucking retarded to have tens of thousands of tax laws. Simplify,simplify,simplify... but this will never happen until the voters get sick of this shit and put people in office that want to actually do something.

Then again, you have people on the left that simply want rich peoples money. Instead of working to get their own they want a fucking participation trophy. I happened to catch an interview of a CEO in manufacturting. Skilled labor jobs like Machining, Welding, painting... ect, is in high demand. Yet they cannot fill job openings because nobody wants to fucking work. They are either to goddamn lazy, or they want a cushy nut cupping job and think they are entitled to those jobs. They are simply unwilling to do whatever they need to in order to get a paycheck.

There's nothing wrong with doing something that you don't want to do, in order to get the job that you want later on. Plus you're not on the goddamn tax payer's dime because that person thinks they are entitled to something. This is why socialism breeds laziness and people that think they are entitled to it. It's becoming very sad how this is the trend nowadays.

DO WORK SON!


50% of the taxes paid are near the top 1%-2.5% of earners. But according to Obama the tax he wants to put on millionaires & Billionaires start out at $250K my rounding isn't as bad as his is!

Kaotic to me seems that your representative democracy is more one way to get distance from people, and do whatever they want in Washington, D.C. that you guys so much criticize.
As you said in some previous comment in other post, how you expect to realy change your constituintion if it doesnt serves anymore to the people, if the representative republic only serves to a small aristocracy, to me seems a conflicting thing.




I agree with, I said what is need to be fix is a part of 1% that is getting rich at expenses of manufacturing overseas, instead of creating job inside USA. In the 80's I remember buying high tech computers parts made in USA, now it's impossible to say a simple example.

We get it, you want someone else's money!

I don't think you read that graph correctly. Line going up means 1% got bigger share of "someone else's money".

But hey, its not like country going bankrupt, we should be able to afford another decade of not taxing the rich, right?

So let's do what Canada did, cut spending. It's working for them! Revenue isn't the problem, it's SPENDING!

Like I said before, we need to change the tax system before we start taxing up,down and middle. The tax system is the root of the problem with the way we gather revenue.

You are clearly out of your freaking mind. What part of "the rich already pay 85% of the income taxes" did you not understand? How about we keep the country from going bankrupt by people like you NOT TRYING TO SPEND OTHER PEOPLE'S MONEY?

How about we stop country from sliding into medieval levels of plutocracy and oligarchy by re-implementing adequately progressive taxation? The rich pay such high % of income taxes because they embezzled even higher level of country's income.

Don't forget "tax the rich" and "universal health care" part of what Canadians are doing. If you include these, I am 100% with you.

You've been asked repeatedly to give us the percentages for taxation that you think are fair and equitable. Until you produce something other than rhetoric I'm done talking to you about this.

How about higher than right now level? Oh wait, Norquist Pledge, and you'd rather see country default on financial obligations.

... but wait, its gets better! Norquist Pledge apparently doesn't apply to extending payroll tax cuts for the middle class. It is not really raising taxes, unless it affects 1%ers.

Numbers dickhead do you know them? As in shut up with your bullshit and say a percentage... 60%,70%? how much percentage. It's like talking to a fucking retard trying to get you to say anything other than what the liberal/democrat party line is. Do you not have a brain to think for yourself?

I say:



You hear:

This is why I stopped posting in this forum. When things don't go your way, the personal attacks ensue. It's not like the friendly ribbing of Drakiis, but like an angry tantrum from a 2 year old when you take away his lolly pop.

Sinij, I think you can effectively say you won the argument when the other side digresses to this.

Sounds like Wolfgang needs a time out. I found a video of him as a kid I wanted to share:

Awww did I hurt someone's feelings?
By the way you're confused that's not in anger, it's frustration. Sinij keeps repeating the same liberal/democrat line. All the while trying to tell the rest of us how wrong we are, yet HE cannot even provide adequate Information on his stance.

I said that to get his attention, because being nice and trying to get him to tell us what his Idea of "fair Share" was. but now I know where he got that from... OBAMA. Because he cannot tell anyone how MUCH their fair share is. Sorry about the "shock & Awe" I'll try not to hurt anyone else's feelings. Name calling and such was thrown in way before I did it, so lets make sure that's on the record as well.

Just to add on the Video you posted, that Kid needs his ass busted. When timeout's don't work, it's time for foot to ass!

Well at least with Jet you didn't feel like banging your head against a homeless person until your skin cracks open and after 5 days of rubbing it in a crackheads welfare baby's shit filled diaper that hasn't been changed for a week, its now a infected dripping yellow shit into your eye and now you have pink-eye so on the way to a back alley abortion for you 14 year old daughter cause the fucking republicans didn't make the rich pay even more money in taxes.

Asking for an exact % is similarly to asking me describe cure for cancer in three words. This isn't a simple problem, and does not have simple solution. Best "simple" answer I can offer you is "more than they pay right now" and no amount of melting-pot-of-friendship raging going to change that answer.

In contrast to conservative dogma, I don't see taxation system as a way to redistribute wealth, but instead a tool to re-equalize society. American Dream cannot exist in an environment where entrenched wealth translated into political power rigs the game to keep everyone else out. Here is another simple answer for you "keep raising taxes on the rich until trend of accumulation of wealth at the top reverses".

As to your raging Wolfgang, don't stop on my behalf, but don't expect me to take you serious.

Cure for cancer in 3 words....Challenge accepted!

DON'T GET CANCER

WInning.

This is a problem, it's pure socialism through and through. Actually it's communism at it's finest, in order to get that you will have to strip freedoms and rights, and that simply will never happen here, unless your ready to see another civil war! So much for the American Dream. Your American Dream is a definition directly from Karl Marx! Welcome to Communism 101. Russia tried that... IT FAILED!
Every single country on earth has rich and poor people. That will NEVER change. Putting in place a tax system to a Government that IS NOT wasting Billions of dollars, one that is more efficient. This comes back to Canada, they have a healthcare system that was causing them havoc financially. This is why they balanced the budget and cut spending in many area's including Education and Green Technology as a couple of them. So you see, you can cut spending without resorting to communism.

Don't worry I won't stop. As far as you taking me serious, I doubt that ever happened but nice try.

So Sinij, What kind of job do you have? What part of the country are you in? or are you not in the U.S.?

I am full time occupied spending your tax money on crack and whores. Really dude, you are trying to go that hard after me? Get a fucking life.

Please explain how raising taxes on the rich is "socialism, communism, and is a definition directly from Kalr Marx!" I will not let you change the topic until you demonstrate you understand these concepts or admit to mindlessly repeating Fox.

What the fuck are you talking about going hard after you?

I don't give a shit where the fuck your at. I was simply wanting to see what kind of job you have, IF you have any. I just think it's interesting if you're living in moms basement or if you have ever had or have a job. I'm leaning towards the mom's basement, because anyone that has worked hard to get what they have doesn't want shit given to them by anyone. Let alone have the good ol' Government come in and take it from someone just to give it to another that's stuck in mommies basement.

Either way good fucking luck.

You said...


Taxing until the top reverses says to me you want everyone to earn the same amount of money. That means the Government will have to take everything then doll it out evenly to everyone... THAT'S COMMUNISM my friend.

My form 8879 line 3 (federal income tax withheld) for year 2010 is $11,261. Time to eat your crow.

"Taxing until the top reverses" does not mean "everyone to earn the same" in any definition or interpretation of these words. If you are going to have debates with imaginary voices in your head, please keep me out of the conversation.

I'm pretty sure this is the first time you gave any Information that was asked for, without having a party line thrown in. Congrats on that!

But you didn't not clarify that, so I was left to assume it to be that way. Maybe you should clarify things just to keep confusion out of the way.

I very clearly stated "keep raising taxes on the rich until trend of accumulation of wealth at the top reverses". "Keep raising taxes" means gradually increase them, why gradually? Because there is no way of knowing specific number when this happens. This is also why I can't just give you some number, and call it "fair level of tax". "Trend of accumulation of wealth at the top" refers to income distribution (see: The Graph I discussed with Derid) that tends to get channeled to already rich people.

We now have top-heavy wealth distribution that hasn't been seen since before great depression - in simple words "very few very very rich folks" are out there doing well and everyone else isn't doing so hot, better situation would be "some very rich folks" where more people are better off. Again, we want more rich people but not quite as rich and not at a cost of shrinking middle class.

If you want to get more rich people, instead of making existing rich people even richer, you have to raise taxes on the very top earners. Yes, this in effect penalizes extreme success, but you can argue that difference between 'success' and 'extreme success' are levels of excess.

Where in the government's charter does it say or suggest that part of their responsibility is to make sure one can only achieve a predetermined level of wealth, or that they are the arbiters of how much wealth is fair for one person to have?

Right around the part where it says lobbying buying favorable government treatment/no-bid contracts and revolving door of industry-regulatory jobs is legal.

I'm not advocating any of those things either.

You don't have to advocate them, they happen on their own unless you regulate against it.

What have I said that made you think I'm FOR lobbying and buying government aid? I'm all for a constitutional amendment that would ban both of those behaviors.

So am I.

Common ground!!! Weeeeeeeee :D

You guys should date.