More from the guy responsible for occupy Wall Street.

Stephen Lerner is an evil SoB who only wants the destruction of our country to pave the way for world wide unions to line his pockets.

Unions were significant 50 years ago. With the laws we have now there's no reason to be in a union. If you show up at work and produce, more than likely your employer will not have an issue.

I've been in a couple unions, I've made more money than I ever did as a union member. Also, unions are good about showing up to things promoting anarchy, because... FUN FACT FOR YA! What do unions do when they walk off a job and strike? 90% of the time there will be some kind of violence.

The place I worked at when I lived in Missouri went through a strike years before I got there. They had people throwing bricks off an overpass into cars of supervisors and scabs. Great negotiation tactics aye!

When I was 7 my dad was a supervisor at a company that went on strike. I did't get to play outside very much while this was going on, because the UNION thought it would be nice to have people sit in a car watching our house. My mom got phone calls asking how she would like a dead husband. Got to love those unions!

I worked in the Professional Union at Boeing (SPEA) Society of Professional Engineers and Analysts, and it made all the difference in the world. One of the reasons I make as much money as I do now in a Corp. non-represent position is due because I started in the Union and my pay was way higher then others who start out in a non-represented position. The Union as well has better health coverage in that they don't pay any premiums, have the same deductible, caps, and plans, while we pay 20 bucks a month per person on the plan.

In addition to that, I have two Pension plans now because SPEA has its own Pension and the Corp. has another one. Unfortunately I am not building up years in the SPEA pension in my current job, but I am still vested in it and anytime I got back to a represented position, I start accruing years again. As well we don't get shit dictated to us when the Corp. bean counters decide to start cutting the promotion and retention pools or force mid year changes to the compensation structure. They only get a chance to do that to the Union once, during the contract negotiations.

Its all in what type of Union you are talking about and how that Union is run. White collar Unions for Technical and Professional people when run correctly make a lot of sense. Work for a shitty Corp or Company and get fucking jacked so that some stupid fucker in Leadership can keep there job or make a larger bonus on your plight. Then tell me you still don't want some type of positive representation...

As to the Violence thing Wolfgang, IAM the Boeing Machinist Union strikes all the time. I was here when the struck last contract year for 56 days. Not one single violent innocent.

Longshoreman though are another story, historically them and the Truckers Union have had violence issues. When was the last time you saw a Teachers, Police, Fire/Emergence, or State Workers Union have a violence issue?

My experience with Unions has never been positive. They have had their purposes I suppose, but in recent times, they have only served to create situations in which we all suffer. It's part of the vicious cycle.

Union fights for what they fight for, in the case for example of the UAW, auto workers. Now, contrary to what many politicians and even the public think the average car worker does not make $75 an hour. More like about $30, but all of their bennies are paid for, which includes dental and health and retirement. That is where the cost comes from, and retired auto workers take home a substantial sum. This contributes to the increased costs of automobiles, which is then passed on. Well, somewhat anyway, that is actually very "minimal"...

I was in the clerks union while I worked at the postal service. I never had any issues with them as I did with the union I had been in previously.

I'm sure there's unions that act the way they should. From my experience and living around local unions those majority have some kind of shenanigans going on while on strike. I guess that's the difference between blue collar and white collar unions. That and the pay,benefits and just about everything else.

I have a cousin from Chicago area, he has been in a union all his working life, since he was born knowing his father.
Last time I talked to him he had worked 4 out of 24 months. During the times he didn't have work he still had to pay his dues or loose all he had worked for the last 20 years.

Boeing built a second production line in South Carolina, this created 1000 jobs or more. The NLRB(the National Labor Relations Board) has issued a complaint and if they win Boeing will have to move back to Washington State.
Why????? be cause South Carolina is a right to work state.
Why would a federal agency be in charge of where a company can build its plants?


I personally do not think Unions in the proper sense are bad.
Its when the Unions became powerful political organizations that they became dangerous. As in they do not have to follow the Obamacare like the rest of us. Or they can the the feds what to do.


http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2011/08/19/121360/labor-agency-gop-dispute-over.html

Yeah, power corrupts.

As Tas has pointed out, the NLRB issue arose because the Boeing execs were dumb enough to openly threaten the unions.

Lots of unions are corrupt as hell and all around messed up. Some unions do a good job of representing their workers and strike a good balance.

Unfortunately , I doubt it is possible to use legislation to keep unions honest.

I've been through 2 to 4 strikes as a salary employee over my 14 years with one of the largest automotive parts supplier to the industry and world and let me tell you the automotive unions are one vicious bunch so far as mobbing me in my car while trying to get into the lot one day and luckily if it weren't for a bunch of guys I know real well on the lines I'm sure something would have become of me or at least my possessions.

Another time I couldn't even enter the lot because they had blocked the other 3 entrances and the sole entrance was literally covered in about 4-6" of broken glass. We were instructed to return home with full pay for the 3-5 days that one lasted but ultimately the ignorance and attitudes of those unions were broke which lead to some of the biggest fallout we've seen in the automotive industry since Chrysler back in the day.

While in theory and if executed correctly Unions can and do provide a purpose however as stated earlier Absolute power corrupts absolutely. I knew guys who were pulling in 120k+ a year in overtime and benefits for not doing much. Each day I had to worry about my job, being an outsourced commodity in IT, I swiped into the gates each day while these guys would open sleep, refuse to do work and even, yes, get caught having sex (2 guys) in a supervisor's office all the while being protected to the max. When I had time and these proceedings were going on I asked those same buddies on the line, some young as I was and others as old as my father, what they felt about unions and this union in particular it was stated that they know those they elect are not there for them but for themselves and it's a shame they all must unite over things a majority of them did not agree with because the leadership put it through.

Again, in theory and if run correctly without power and greed fueling them they are great aspects that have done many good (my father, family, et all) however many today have become bloated, over ignorant cesspools of greed and power that ultimately; corrupt.

That's all I'll have to say on many of these threads lately because while I don't mind to debate or even give my own opinions it's getting quite thick in here and a bit abrasive to the point I'll follow my fatherly taught mantra of 'never go into business with family nor talk about politics or religion' since regardless of who you think your discussing things with someone, somewhere is not going to agree and it just causes drama that doesn't need to be there.

Cheers,
~Icky

I too was admonished not to talk about politics and religion, but not by my father. Instead it was "polite society" that made that request of me. Growing up, as I watched my father carefully speak his mind, write letters to the editor of the local paper, and stand up for what he believes in, I learned that if we don't talk about these things openly and honestly then we will never change the status quo and we will simply be the sheeple that the corrupt power seekers want so desperately for us to be. So, I learned when someone says "Don't rock the boat" to respond "Why the hell not?" If they can give me a good reason that's not rooted in shame, then I will. Otherwise its open season on any topic.

Oh don't get me wrong.. I'll debate and bring up the issue with those I don't necessarily wish to keep as friends/etc

I consider you all friends and brothers/sisters so it's easier sometimes, like business and family, to keep them separate

HA..because you have folks, most of who are like me, who try and keep it unemotional, but when our value systems are questioned, each one of us usually becomes defensive in some manner. You have to address the issues, yes, but more than that, you have to keep emotion to a minimum if you can. That is what you saw from your father. I find that hard to do sometimes which makes me feel bad later, as I do not dislike anyone for their opinion, even tho in the heat of the moment I would love to knock some sense into them, as if that would work.

It would be easier if that would work



I think that's why he sent so many letters to the editor and why it takes me 15 minutes to type out many of my responses on here. We both have learned to take a step back, read what we wrote and try to take the sting (that we want to deliver) out of the statement. Because we both know that once the other side gets their feelings hurt it becomes nothing but a shouting match and they will never listen to anything you have to say.