If you, like me, do not like either of the front runners in the upcoming election and find yourself sitting on the fence, please watch this.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Tt2yGzHfy7s

The clip speaks for itself, but for some food for thought; how does he plan on paying for a "civilian national security force" that equals the strength of our military without raising taxes?

Weren't there similiar civilian miltia forces in communist Russia and Nazi Germany, mainly used as a way for the government to have its citizens spy on their neighbors?

Did I miss something over the last 28 years that made it look like our national defense was in jeopardy? Why this talk of a civilian national defense? Is this some way to illegitamize local and state militias by forming a federal civilian defense?

This whole line of thought is really disturbing to me, and I have to admit that this Tuesday scares the crap out of me.

Thoughts?

It would be scary, except that Bush and Mccain are just as bad/worse. Or I should say, its scary, but no scarier than whats already going on and less scary than the thought of Palin sitting the Oval Office.

Bush is a non-factor. He's gone regardless of what happens, so you can put your mind at ease about him. McCain is not nearly ambitious or extreme enough to pose a threat of this magnitute as far as I can tell. Palin in the White House does raise red flags because she is so bent on religion in her politics, but still not as frightening as the new Gestapo.

Mccain has been in bed with Neocons for years now, and even spoke out against the Courts demanding the Constitution be followed in regards to detainees.

Hell the GOP just stationed a US Military division on US soil for the purpose of "keeping civil order" , your fears about Obama may be well founded but honestly at this point I have become numb to it. But we know the GOP in its current incarnation is bad for liberty, we can just hope your info on Obama is being understood out of context or something... we are screwed either way TBH.

I have a hunch, he was simply referring to funding First Responders and Port Security and civilian police forces, etc... maybe I am wrong but the clip is probably only 20 seconds long for a reason.

everyone always said were screwed either way when election time comes up


I don't think it will be as bad as most people make it out to be .. kinda like when there was the supposed WORLD WILL END Y2K IS GONNA HAPPEN AND EVERYTHING WILL GO HAYWIRE AND SHIT WERE DEAD LETS STOCK FOOD FOR THE NEXT 5 YEARS AND PREPARE FOR HELL


Not quite as bad as predicted i'm sitting good either way it falls election day or hell the next 4-8 years

My biggest concern with Obama ( and the reason he will never
get my vote ) is his stance on gun control.

If he sits in the White House, and the Democrats control
both houses of Congress ( as some predict ) my guess is a full
blown ban on anything more powerful than a pellet gun will
not be far behind.

I hate being force-fed candidates who are completely
useless, then being told how un-American I am for not
voting. Tell you what, I'll go vote until my fingers
fall off as long when we get to choose who the candidates
are.

It's kinda like three wolves and a sheep voting on what's
for dinner. Spin it any way you want, but democracy it
isn't.

everyday being a Libertarian or a Constitutionalist gets more and more unlikely or should I say more difficult for those of us who consider themselves one or the other.

Neither candidate is what I'm looking for... At this point I'm leaning to McCain just to keep gridlock between the legislative and executive branches.

A Democratic President, Senate and House could pass a lot of legislation that most American's probably won't agree with...

While wars always end, entitlement programs never do...

If / when Congress or the residents of the White House finally go to far, they will learn the true reason why
the 2nd Amendment became a reality.

Hint: It's not for hunting / sporting purposes.

Brutal: A 20 second clip from a random speech that contains absolutely no detail is garbage. I don't know if he followed up on that thought, but this clip cuts him short of an explanation.

Daye: In strict context to this thread, wouldn't a "civilian military" need guns? I haven't kept myself up to date on politics recently, but there are conflicting ideas on the table here.

Represent: Y2K, it worked.
1999 - Everyone fears 2000 will come and everything will break.
2000 - George Bush is elected president, everything breaks.

You still have a job? Money? No one to answer to but yourself? Do strangers walk into your house whenever they please? Can you own a gun?

Nothing is broken, people are just stupid.

For reference, here is the whole speech. Feel free to see it in context and draw your own conclusions; I already have.

A quick Google search pulled up a pile of blogs and the like, stuffed to the brim with people who share your concern. It turns out that there is no comment from Obama's party concerning the "civilian national security force."

I needed to request an absentee ballot to vote this year, and I've already sent it in. I neglected to check any presidential parties; I only voted for local and state government. Since I've been living on my own, off campus, and working a lot of my political views have changed and I have grown dissatisfied with both major candidates. I expect Obama to win.

That said, I remain hopeful regarding Obama straying from his script here. For my own peace of mind I am going to assume he improvised poor wording while he was trying to spice up his script. I see that 20 second clip as foreshadowing his plan to give more power to not-for-profits and grassroots efforts. It could be safe to assume he was simply trying to motivate people by expressing that he wants to put "funding" and "power" directly into the hands of the people [for education, innovation, and *true* patriotism, not for giving us the power to micromanage each others lives].

Sorry Brutal, the Constitution is much more broken than it was 8 years ago, and yes, it is a big deal. And for your first 3 questions, the answer for many is "no".

The point about Obama winning and Dems taking a supermajority in congress is a good point though... our Government always functions best when there is massive gridlock, because our govt cannot do good on a fundamental level, period. Less is always more when it comes to the Federal Gov't.

Lest we forget what happened the last time there was a Democratic president with a Democratic supermajority in the legislature, I give you The New Deal.

I'm sorry Derid, I don't know a single person that's unemployed for any reason other than personal choice. I'm not saying that the same will be true everywhere, but the unemployment rate is still holding at ~6% nationwide. If you have someone other than yourself to answer to (assuming you are an adult) that's something you should address quickly before you find yourself irrevocably beholden to them.

Oh sure, people can get new jobs- new wal-mart jobs maybe, and those with skill can always do better.

Standard of living is down, and record numbers of people keep living with their families until much, much later in life. That is fact. The past decade has not been a good one for overall economic health, and despite what Hillary Clinton may tell you - the ability to buy cheap shit from Wal-Mart doesnt rectify that.

Our Banking system has just been quasi-nationalized (aka politicized) leading many many more people in business, ergo them and their employees and customers, beholden to the gov't. The days of kissing political ass, lobbying and payoffs just to maintain your operating loans is nigh upon us. If you dont think politicizing banking is a big deal - you should. Over the course of the next 20 years it will do more to stagnate social mobility, entrench the corrupt, and drain vital energy from our economy than probably any other single event/issue.


You seem to be operating in the realm of (if theres no person, at your door , right this second, making you beholden to them - then theres no problem.) While you are correct in saying that if someone is beholden to someone, they need to rectify that.. the way I am taking you as meaning it anyhow... I fail to see its relevance in this conversation. I am talking about national politics, and economics, not the personal problems of random people.

You should be looking at the big picture. Procedural precedent for lack of Habeas Corpus, Lack of Privicy and Civil Rights, among many other issues of the past 8 years... not to mention Cheney and his insitance that the office of the Vice President somehow falls outside any jurisdiction but its own... all these things and so much more have been huge black marks on our liberty and our nation as a whole, and need to be forcefully rejected in the ballot box.

The right to bear arms is extremely important, but it is not the only issue of importance in regards to safeguarding liberty.

Also, not sure how you read my last post, but FYI I was not referring to having a Dem Prez+Congress as a good thing.

The sad thing is, I remember a day when the GOP actually stood for something. I remember being thrilled when Gingrich organized the Contract with America, and the GOP took congress.. with promises to clean house.

Gingrich led the party admirably during the Clinton years, and this did wonders for the country at the time. But after Gingrich's star fell, ands Bushes rose... the Neocons and the dark rot of hubris and corruption set in at record pace.

I am not a Democrat, but after Bush.. the modern GOP needs to go the way of the Whigs. The Neocon GOP of Bush and Cheney, and those who kowtowed to their agendas these past years (McCain) needs to be swept aside and completely discarded.. so that the party can be rebuilt upon true conservative principles, and with a real governing philosophy.

The only way for something like that to happen, are crushing defeats at the polls. Defeats which the GOP has unfortunately, sorely earned.

I do not hope for a Democratic supermajority by any means... but by the same token, if the GOP defeats are not severe enough... the party will all to likely continue in its current form, on its current course.. for 2-4 years longer than it, and we, can afford it to do.

He is now the man.

I would have to stand up and speak my mind concerning empoyment since I am directly impacted, and many in my state have as well. Minnesota unemployment has risen from 4% to almost 14% lately, and has been matching if not exceeding country wide rates which have steadily risen in the last four years, especially since 9/11 (though that is not the direct reason for such a rise). Many of the jobs created to halt the unemployment rate of increase were governmental, so if you lacked the education or couldn't pass background checks your SOL.

I was unemployed from 11/07 to 9/08 and it wasn't for lack of trying either, currently the job I have now is temporary and looks like it will end in a week or so for me, I have been employed since 9/2/08 and will soon be needing a new job were non exsists, bush broke the economy pure and simple.

Now I can't sit here and blame either Mc Cain or Obama, but Mc Cain has been wishy washy flirting with democrats about a possible party change and only knelt down to the republican party after several of these flirtations when he could see there was a possibility to become president, he voted more often then not for bush policy after this dark pact was struck.

Obama has so many issues I couldn't list them all here but first and fore most is his manchurian canadate like relationships and his inexperience, you can't even become the manager of a mcdonalds after 140 some days, so how can you become president after serving the senete for the same amount.

Either way I want shit fixed...*Frustrated*

Quote:

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Daye: In strict context to this thread, wouldn't a "civilian military" need guns? I haven't kept myself up to date on politics recently, but there are conflicting ideas on the table here.

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I believe that was his point Slinger. We're already packing. I personally have an arsenal in three locations (My house, My ranch, my father in-law's walk in safe [simply because it close to home and out of reach of my kids])