awesome jetstar, hallelujah is all i gotta say!!

Jet, I was with KGB since UO and KGB SB since Treachery, I know where our laws are coming from and why they were established. That being said, I disagree with KGB faction using these laws as we were still in 97 UO fighting RPKs. Please tell me who are these innocents in SB, how can you RPK if fighting others is what expected from you BY GAME DESIGN? We cannot carry this legacy rules to the letter and expect to be successful in all-out PvP games like SB. Please rethink your stand.

Yeah sinij but there is a difference between say the guys playing uo again hunting down rpks, and people in sb just going around griefing.

Though it sounds good, I can't say it really applies to me since SB is the only place where the apps were being skipped.

How would you go about griefing people in SB? Exploits and profanity aside – there isn’t a way. There aren't newbies to protect, not anymore anyways, and there aren't helpless crafters or roleplayers minding their own business. Everything in SB is geared toward war effort against the world.

I personally think that KGB SB faction should be given “Marshal” status and as such I don’t see #6 applying.

parts of the application are outdated but it's a good foundation for KGB to have, I am sure tht the application will overgo some revamping in the future.

But it is important for everyone who joins KGB to have this process done and behind them, because most KGB SB players that came in when there was no app enforced with them probably don't even have a clue about our message board or even that we had a constitution

Does this mean I need to fill out an application ? I was one of the guys, who got in during early SB. There should be quite a few of the old school KGB ppl, that know me as a "goodguy"... at least I hope you guys remember me :-).

Let me know what I have to do ... I am KGB and hope to continue being KGB. I will do what is asked of me out of respect for my elders.

- AllYourBase

Beaside the expansion of online game system and KGB history and value I think both could go hand in hand, altho maybe adjustment is needed I am sure Jet welcome any input you all have. Jet already made some channels to listen to your input, all you have to do is type your valuable oppinion in there. The thing is many don't want to do this because they are not certain it will go thru, well it will...give it a shot

As far as SB goes, well it can be done if the leaders/veteran act accordingly...then the rest will follow. Its not easy but it can be done.

I find this announcement as being a positive thing. If the kgb sb faction wasn't up to the highest standards last year, it is in the administrative things.

I would like to defend the kgb sb members from the last vengeance and wrath times. When someone reads this announcement, it seems like the kgb sb faction went a long time ago awry. In my humble opinion, this was not the case.

The KGB had a good presence on vengeance, as well as in wrath. I have experienced banes during long hours - not one shout, not one stupid comment on global chat, no random PKing. The discipline of our members was good. Many of them have been an example and inspiration not just for others, but for their leaders too. It would not make them justice to leave the impression that their efforts and dedication to the guild were erred and in vain.

If something went awry, then it was the guild moving to vindication. The starting up of the guild began as an experiment. The faction of the Knights and Glory and Beer merged with the Evil Bastages in order to have one well sized pvp force. There was no KGB anymore, but a "KEB". Each guild made concessions - we had good fights, but at the end, the differences in play style and intentions were huge. I guess you can read in the private boards what happened afterwards. As such I may assume that the experiment failed. I would like to point out, however, that old school members and recent members were there - so we all have to share a little bit of the blame.

The application requirement for inactive members shall be made mandatory not just for the sb faction but nationwide.

The most important thing now is to remember our mission and go forward towards the new challenges we can assume as a guild.

I find this announcement totally off the mark. As perhaps the only true consistent SB player left that has been a dedicated member of KGB for many years a few things need to be pointed out from my perspective:

1) RPK as defined in UO does not apply to SB at all. This is a game that encourages warfare and as the game design was implemented strongly enforces the KOS policy in that an r2 stealther can just as easily make off with your vorgrim dropper or commander disc as a full group in fact there has been many a time where an r2 priest or vamp with strigoi summons spell shows up on track and chains in several r7 channelers etc.. basically there is no guaranteed way to decide if someome means well or not.. thers no crafters etc.. people are either leveling searching for loot or trying to kill you. With that in mind the best defense is offense KOS or be KOS'd I agree TRASH TALK IS UNACCEPTABLE and have dealt with many of these conditions severely.

2) The present state of affairs of the guild have to do directly with the leadership that has abandoned its players. Holrom and Represent know they are both guilty of failing to procure a new leader and letting the guild and its assets lie in limbo without a leader for several weeks. With this in mind many people felt dejected, angry, betrayed and most quit or moved to other games. The few that were strong enough to stand by me as I tried to pick up the broken peices are basically the the hard core that can put up with the most bullshit (pardon my language) but Holrom and Represent really screwed everyone over and should have been handed a court date. Their lack of integrity, selfishness and loss of honor far outweigh anything you may have witnessed in your brief and transitory time on the server. Which brings me to my next point.

3) Its a huge slap in the face for those of us who have stood by the commandments and are trying to rebuild to have the High King who has logged probably less than 10 minutes of total actual playing time in the past year ( i mean at the keyboard participating etc) to log on for 5 minutes and see one thing and make such a defamatory post. Your evidence is lacking in the extreme and makes those of us that are left after 2 leaders that have abandoned us feel the sting even more. If you wish to thouroughly evaluate the current faction I suggest you log on daily for a few weeks for several hours then make these types of post. Its really discouraging for me to even try to rebuild now. We are part of a nation now that has perhaps the best reputation on the server. Part of the problem is that we are playing a game where there are only a few people our age (35+) most of the current roster and player base is 15-21 and I agree totally with having honor etc.. but these are kids and yes they can be taught etc but it takes time and we are working on it.. for which you give us no credit. In addition, are you sure that what you read was a Hawks nation member or a KGB Verbatim player? I enforce our commandments very severely and would like to know whom you saw breaking these commandments so I may deal with this.

4) You've appointed Elph to oversee new recruits in a game that she does not play. How can she evaluate screen shots from the standpoint of the political spectrum of SB? She has no knowledge of the hostile / friendly political structure that exist on mourning. It might be better to have this position be granted to an active member of the SB community such as myself or ruski now that he is back.. This is in no way a slap to Elph who I adore.. its a reality check in that it highlights the political importance of being involved with the game for which you will approve new members.. at least thats how I see it.

5) if any portion of this post seems antagonistic or innappropriate i apologize. I have been working week after week to stem the loss of players and to recruit new talent as well as get old talent back.. Its very disheartening after never having received any recognition for my work over the past several years with this guild to log in and read this rubbish. Yes i repear rubbish. Please play the game consistently before you make those post its just not fair. I am sorry you feel this way but you havent mentioned any of the wonderful things that our people have done the past several months and i assure you that list is long and filled with integrity. I hope that you can return to SB and help make it a better gaming community fashioned in the vision you have for it. I could sure use the help. In the meantime, if you can not be a consistent part of the KGB community on SB please have faith in us old timers that we are doing our best in keeping your dream alive.. probably far longer than we should have in light of such a lack of appreciation.

yours truly Uber

Nation leader of the mourning KGB faction.

Sensei Nidan Grade
Shukokai Karatedo
Chief Instructor of Montclair, NJ Shukokai Karatedo (As a sensei of martial arts i share your vision jet please trust that)

I think Uber said all that could be said. We are doing our best to keep the name KGB at the top of all eyes and i feel that it still is the Guild to beat, but you cant treat each game the same way. There should be rules for each game and for someone to give new recruits access that dosnet play the game that often is crazy. You cant manage a place if you never get your hands dirty. Nice post uber.

Uber you said everything that i would have said if i had been able to think of it hehe. Nice post glad to have you back from Vaca too. Hopefully wife aggro isnt too bad this week.

uber i am gonna be honest i just had time to skim your post it's almost nap time.

Jet didn't appoint me to forsee new recruits, he appointmented me to keep the application process in order for you guys on Shadowbane, you will settle how you get new recruits accepted but the main thing is they need to fill out the application. That is what i will ensure gets done, basically by doing waht i have been doing, answering posts to access and double checking with Coleria on what to do with the people, then I will be posting the applications in the Sb private forums for ya'll to vote on them or however you deem membership..The only rules i will enforce will be stricly as far as admin, like the application must be complete in total contain a sponsro who is already a full member of KGB..

Jet isn't saying that everyone who has been with KGB in the past from Ruski and Holrom's time where they didn't do the traditional application system is going to have to reapply or those that are coming to KGB SB that are currently KGB members have to fill out a returning veteran application, this is for those that are newly coming to join ya'll on mourning. I am not sure if you understood that so i just wanted to point that out.


You and Coleria or Zhou or whoever just need to tell me how you plan to do the acceptance process for your newbies from the application once it's posted and I will enforce those rules for you guys assuring the application has enough votes etc to allow for your SB membership


So again to sum it up I am in no way to oversee your new recruits i am here to just ensure the application gets posted in your forums and gets officially stamped as an accepted member or a not accepted member.

That is the role that I have always had in KGB's application process.

As far as recruiting and what not in game and enforcing KGB laws in game and what not with new folks that is not on my shoulders.

If you have any questions feel free to ask me!

ok uber i read all of your post now!! I am sure jet will get back and respond to you on that stuff.

And I hope that my above post made sense to you

Elph as always i respect and treasure you. Thank you for responding. I am glad to have your help in any fashion or form. I currently am not recruiting on SB as our combined Hawks nation has enough pvpers at the moment. And we are getting a steady stream of regulars back. Hopefully you can stop in some time!

That is good to hear uber!! It is good to see KGB Sb with such a great set of guys

When did all your base make that post? I need him to give mme that warlock macro again haha get your butt in game allyourbase!

lol coleria

Hi, I plan a detailed response when I get to a more reliable connection. I am out in front some house waiting for a friend to come out, hacking the wireless so I can get caught up.

In short, I dont see how asking SB members to follow procedures is a "slap in the face" I always respect and honor KGB SB. If you look at the application closely, it asks people to explain their gaming personality and makes people read our historical and partially out dated governing documents.

I am not asking for everyone who is now a member to go back and reapply, I am saying it is real easy to pipe all new members through the standard membership process.

More when I get back home tomorrow.

I do not believe I'm still a factor in KGB SB, but I was at one time. I came to KGB on Wrath, started as a petitioner, and worked my way up to Inner Council status. Then I had to quit SB for real-life reasons. I have not yet decided where I go yet on Mourning, since I had pledged my loyalties to two Mourning guilds before I ever knew about KGB, and I am at conflict.

But, after logging countless hours playing on Mourning before Wrath, a server where people are allowed to migrate their characters with full banks, I feel Uber has a valid point about the state of Shadowbane on Mourning...

I played some today (on my old non-Wrath characters). I was in Ventrilo with my old guild leaders and a guild leader of a former competing guild. One of their characters had 9billion gold in the bank. Another had 2billion. Their banks are full of all the best items in the game. That is what KGB is competing against. Mourning is a server where even the most 'honorable' guilds are guilty of duping, owning duped gold and items, treachery, and deceit.

If you see blue dots on Mourning, they WILL attack you. There is no question. Only definitive neutral agreements prevent that. It is of my opinion that KGB on Mourning can avoid the status of 'rpk' if it allows guilds that request and honor neutral status to be treated as such. Essentially, attacking first is self-defense in Shadowbane.

On Wrath, non-rpk worked well for KGB since, being one of the largest guilds on the server, smaller guilds avoided pk'ing KGB members. Also, the largest 'factor' guilds openly declared their intentions towards KGB.

However, it looks to me like KGB will be forced to deal with smaller numbers on Mourning - and in real life, the underdogs are usually labeled terrorists. Drastic times call for drastic measures. On Mourning, there are literally hundreds of active tags, where the vast majority will pk anyone they don't know on site. To be 'non-RPK' in the sense that Jetstar is stating would mean to force KGB SB players into enduring much frustration and hardship to experience who is who.

In Shadowbane, where 'play to crush' is the ultimate motto, a guild can still be honorable while severely punishing those who would go against it. Instead of condemning the KGB SB players to ultimate frustration of being easy targets while attempting to recruit numbers, please allow them to play the game.

Utmost respect for Uber. Utmost respect for Ruski, though I disagree with some of his stance.

Also, as far as Holrom, I have NEVER met a more competent, understanding, and capable leader in Shadowbane. It frustrates me to blame him for anything when real-life circumstance abruptly forced him to leave. Shadowbane is a game.. we've all been forced to close it for real life at one time or another.

On Wrath, when Holrom was gone, none of us could quite step up and lead at his level. Believe me, I tried my damnedest. To blame him when he left is to admit his leadership talent.

Uber knows what he's talking about.. and feeling like I know him, I believe he was holding back on his last post.

Since this is a place to post your concernes hear is something for all of us on Mourning. I think we really need to do something about getting our own TOL.
Hawks has been goood place to for us to start and Vaylor has been a good Nation leader imo, But things are starting to go downward. If you are ever in vent, you are starting to hear about how Vaylor is so frustrated about the way the nation is going.
He has on numerous occasion talked about if other subs dont get there stuff straight he will start to unsub or not recruit, and the other day i was in town and was attacked in a friendly way and when i started fighting back the guards attacked me and i didnt even hit the guards. So to me that a attack against KGB in there own way. For us not to beable to do any dualing in town.
I might be looking to deeep into things but we do really need to get our owne TOL, even sweetleaf who started after us on mourning has a r7 Tol and two mines so there is no reasong we shouldnt either. Its starting to get boring just watching everyone pll or farming. Its time to be a threat to this server just like the way it was on Veng. It
We cant even really recruite because we dont even have our owne town. Hawks have been very nice to us and making us feel wanted at first but i feel that things are changing.

I created a new thread to solve this issue, your advice and imput is appreciated.