The KGB Oracle Forums General Public Discussion (SPECIAL ACCESS) KGB Political Debate Central Guns is gud

I think this is the root of the issue. If the ability to live my life is indeed an inalienable right then how can anyone tell me that I don't have the right to defend it against someone who wants to take it away from me? Removing your ability to defend yourself against a foe who, while paying no heed to the law, would take your life, is tantamount to the theft of your right to life.

I respect and support my police force, however, they are crime solvers not stoppers. Knowing the police are there works as a deterrent much of the time, but when it doesn't and seconds count, they are at least minutes away. So, you cannot use the police force as an excuse to take away my ability to defend myself. Furthermore, even if the police were omnipresent and could stop every crime, how then would you protect yourself against an out of control government that has decided to use the police force to quell any resistance to their dictates? Do you depend on the goodness of the police and military to stand up to the government in your favor? I think history, past and present, would show the naivete of that line of reasoning.

There is a little country on your northern border Mithus called Venezuela where I'm sure they would love to be able to speak out against their leader, but every time anyone tries they end up "missing" or have everything taken from them.

As to the ability to own automatic firearms or explosives like grenades, there really is no need (although there is no need to ban them either except to make the government "more equal"). History is replete with instances of smaller less well armed, but determined forces claiming victory over larger, more well armed and armored foes. The U.S.A. is here today because of one such example. Can we as citizens mobilize and fight back immediately against our government or the U.N. if something unthinkable were to happen? No. But those of us who have given every eventuality a little thought will be damn good at guerrilla warfare and will eventually be able to organize and take back our country from the hands of whatever despot seizes control.

Though I hope with every fiber of my being to never be faced with that scenario, it is the height of folly to fail to prepare for every conceivable scenario. All of the success gurus like to say, "failure to plan is planning to fail." I happen to think that's pretty accurate, but I learned it from my parents and had it reinforced by the boy scouts long before I ever heard of Steven Covey or Zig Ziggler.

Criminals here use automatic rifles, law abiding citzens here just killthemselves on banal situations with discussion and fights that could be avoided if they do not have a weapon a close hand. I'm not going further because our reality is different from USA and Europe reality.

If you have a chance to watch elite squad it will show a bit how is violence on Brazil. The movie it's not fantasy.

You're saying, if only angry folks didn't have ready access to guns, surely they'd never think to pick up a knife, or a baseball bat, or a brick... Come on Mithus, that's just silly. If a person is angry enough to shoot someone then they are angry enough to beat them to death. You cannot seriously blame the gun for those deaths.

While the consequences of your society may be more severe in Brazil, I do not think that you can say your reality is different than ours. Reality is not subjective. That argument seems more like an excuse not to think about the issue.

Having been to São Paulo, watching people, and working with two people from that town, personally I would liken it to a cross of Eastern Spain and the Southern Japanese Island of Kyushu.

Great.. I'm heading there this spring I'm told..

Hawt Asian/Brazilian mixed women. OMFG. Bring sunglasses and some rubber bands to keep your jaw shut.

Kaotic, I know the issue is not the gun.

But when the statistic say for example that almost 50% of women death by firearms are from theirs husbands and partners, that makes us think if they with no access to guns would save theirs lifes, of course they would kill with another weapons that was not a gun, like a club, but gun are more lethal.

I know too that restricting access guns to citzens, do not save us because criminals do not buy guns by normal means here in Brazil, so that would not make us safer against criminals.

So question is problematic, like you guys said because government cannot protect you 24/day. So here in Brazil the question is what save more lifes.

According to what you've posted citizens in your country have had to have a "good reason" and be cleared by the police, to own a gun since at least 1997. If removing the guns were a viable solution then why do you still have so much gun violence 14 years later?

The solution is simple Mithus and it boils down to personal responsibility. If you aren't self aware enough to recognize a toxic relationship before it kills you, then you've failed to be responsible for yourself. If you can't have an argument without resorting to violence to make your point then your lack of self control shows a considerable lack of personal responsibility.

The problem with being a free people is that it comes with a certain amount of responsibility. If you want the government to protect you from every eventuality then you must be prepared to give up your freedom. Those of us who advocate for less gun regulation or at least no more than we have are not willing to give up that freedom and we believe that people must learn to live responsibly. People unwilling to take responsibility for their actions will always make life more difficult for the rest of us, but that is part of the price we must pay to retain our freedom. Removing freedom from the entire population is never, in my opinion, an equitable solution to solving the problems of a few irresponsible citizens.

Sorry, those quotes are from england, here in Brazil we like USA can buy guns, we just need authorization to carry it around.

England,Japan,Australia are examples that weapons were almost banned from the society with no colateral effects to freedom.

Also here in Brazil our society still yet to weight the advantages and disadvantes of guns, with the remote probability of the weapon be used in a legit defense act, and it be a cause of half of deaths(18.000 per year) by unjustified acts of violence by non criminals. What's better to our society, after thinking and analizing the facts I think england,japan,australian example is better to Brazil. Maybe to USA like you guys are saying it's not.

Oops, guess I didn't read it close enough.

Yet. What will the citizens do when the government decides it doesn't need their input any longer?