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Originally Posted By: Vuldan
Yes, but that section of the country was not "stolen" from the French, they sold it to the United States in the Louisiana Purchase, which pretty much covererd much of the midwest.


Right, but Helemoto was making the point that it wasn't just the Brits who took the land from the Indians, but the French et. al. who then sold it.


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Ah..I completely missed that...nice, very nice. :-)


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Not my point.
My point was that everyone says the Americans stole the land from the natives. This is not totally true.
The Europeans stole the land.
They also brought in the slaves and made a economy that was at least in the south dependent on the slave trade and had to be stopped with the Republican President. You don't see the black population trying to get reperation from the Dutch or England or France or Italy, but from the American government.

I am a publicly schooled American with no college education so I can not put into words as well as most, but I do know that American was not founded when the colonies started and started the slow demise of the natives.

Through out history natives have been displaced and taken over by a stronger population.
Just look at South America, I am pretty sure they didn't speak Spanish before the Spanish showed up.

I get tired of the whole Americans beat up the poor old indians. Granted in todays mentality it was wrong but not much we can do about it now.

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Still and excellent point Helemoto that I had not considered in defense of the arguement. But amn sure one I will hold on to for the future.


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Originally Posted By: Mithus
Jetstar can you give your opinion about the Weapon of Mass Desctruction on Iraqi, i think Vuldan and others have the same opinion as Kaotic is saying, maybe even Arkh.


Originally Posted By: JetStar
I am officially going recuse myself of further comment / involvement in these types of issues. I consider it a conflict of interest, and could easily lead some to believe that my RL political views could in some way taint KGB or it's mission.




As much as I would like to chime in Mithus, I think its better if I remain silent. Sorry to leave you all by yourself with the Neocons.


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I'm not sure Jet even knows what a Neocon is, it's a word he heard Olberman spew out of his worthless mouth.

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Originally Posted By: Wolfgang
I'm not sure Jet even knows what a Neocon is, it's a word he heard Olberman spew out of his worthless mouth.


Let me correct you. Neocon is not necessarily a derogatory term. Olberman did not coin the term. I hope this makes you a little better informed about your own political stance.

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In contemporary usage, the term "neoconservative" was used in 1973 to criticize American liberals and social democrats who had criticized the ambitions and outcomes of the Great Society's welfare programs. Although neoconservatives favor free-market policies in economics, they accept a role for the national government in fighting poverty and promoting the public good, like traditional conservatives in Europe and Canada and unlike most American conservatives, influenced by libertarian and states' rights traditions.[1][2] During the 1970s, "neoconservative" was applied to Democrats who had favored a negotiated settlement rather than an immediate withdrawal to end the Vietnam War and who criticized the foreign policy of President Jimmy Carter, particularly his support of detente and criticism of anticommunism. Several neoconservatives were approached by the presidential campaign of Ronald Reagan, which criticized the detente of the Carter Administration; a few neoconservatives like Jeanne Kirkpatrick served in the Reagan Administration. During the late 1970s through 1983, neoconservatives like Kirkpatrick criticized Carter's human rights policies, arguing that they had facilitated the rise of the Sandistas in Nicaragua and risked helping other Marxist-Leninist movements come to power. Neoconservatives were initially skeptical about the AFL-CIO's support of the Polish labor-union Solidarity, but came to support the National Endowment for Democracy's aid to movements for liberalization and democratization in the former Soviet Union. After the fall of Soviet communism, American politics featured less discussion of neoconservativism in the 1990s. Most neoconservatives supported a military response against Al Qaeda in Afghanistan and many supported liberating Iraq from Sadam Hussein, although some have made criticisms of the scope and conduct of both wars.


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Quote:
"Nebraska Republican U.S. senator Chuck Hagel, who has been critical of the Bush administration's adoption of neoconservative ideology in his book America: Our Next Chapter, writes, "So why did we invade Iraq? I believe it was the triumph of the so-called neo-conservative ideology, as well as Bush administration arrogance and incompetence that took America into this war of choice. . . . They obviously made a convincing case to a president with very limited national security and foreign policy experience, who keenly felt the burden of leading the nation in the wake of the deadliest terrorist attack ever on American soil."

Last edited by Mithus; 10/09/11 12:32 PM.

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Neocon as it is commonly used today means the ideology of the Rumsfeld/Kristol/Feith/etc clique that advocates America taking a heavy hand in "policing" the world and aggressively using military intervention to advance our interests.


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Hagel was my Senator and all he wanted was the limelight to try and make a name for himself to run for President.

He was useless.

Neocon is a term for the Democrats to use to make Republicans sound bad to the population that doesn't know what what it means. The first time I heard it I thought they were calling them neonazis

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