The KGB Oracle Forums KGB National Announcements, News, and Help The KGB Sentinel Why does KGB continue

Well first of since your openly asking. If it was me I wouldn't even respond. Second out of curiosity why are you posting this... i mean uggghhhh...i'd rather see a good article about darkfall that hasn't been posted in the forum, over some guy that has enough time to message us. I can understand some mishaps in UO since it was still NEWage Gaming. But really, Shadowbane?!shadowbane was always and will always be a game was based on zerging. No respectable guild wanted to zerg anyway. Eventually the term zerging just became a "coined term" for getting your ass kicked. Saying anything about this is lowgrade.

I'm confused as well as to why this was posted as front page news..

I think the reason that Jet made this front page news is it is something that bothers him I would think. Since the dawn of KGB there has always been some guild, group, clan, whatever you want to call it that accuse KGB of Zerging, Ganking and generally playing like assholes. What most other guilds don't get and don't realize is that KGB is not JUST a guild. We are a tightly knit batch that makes sure to learn the best way to beat our enemies. We are constantly accused on Hybrid of "ganking" reds. Even when the numbers are even or stacked against us, we didn't "play fair" and it is because they lost. People in general hate to lose. They will piss, moan and whine about why it wasn't their fault they lost or died. We have rolled through Vesper many a night over the past couple of weeks with 3 or 4 of us, sometimes more but most often it is a core group that does Vesper fighting. But if you talk to the people we fight the most there ( guild DOC) they will tell you, while the 4 of us are standing there mind you, that we ran through with a 10 person gank squad and didn't fight fair blah blah blah. And it is because they can't seem to get down the technique. We have run in there 8 against 4 and still come out victorious in the end, yeah they would drop one of us but then we would drop 2 or 3 of them. It has always been this way. I remember people saying Nibs hacked when he got good at PvP, and that he cheated by having blue healers or that one of the other KGB around him had attacked too. It was nothing more then whining.

I have been in gank squad guilds, I was red for a LONG LONG time before coming to KGB. And KGB isn't one of them. They just have the formula right is all. And another thing that has to be realized is that we are one of the only guilds out there that has been around and active this long. Look at the guilds we fought along with in UO. Very few of them remain and only 1 I know of is still playing OSI shards but thier boards are dead, their community has become a ghost town. They get on, get as many people they can together, go literally gank squad through the dungeons and towns that they can and go back and log off. We are not like that folks.

KGB is my family, no matter how long I have disappeared in the past I am welcome back with open arms by most everyone. I have taken pride in wearing the tag in EVERY game I have played with or without other KGB members there. My clan names in CS were ALWAYS [clan name]Winter[KGB]. I have a feirce loyalty to KGB and everyone in it and if I think someone is doing something against the guild I will let it be known. I don't apoligize for my protectiveness. KGB is loved and hated for its longevity, its reputation as a long standing guild and its loyalty to its members. If I have to die 15 times in one night in a game in defense of KGB I do it. Because no matter what has gone on in our lives, there has always been one "brother or sister" to talk to about it, and a shoulder to cry on, and when you kill a bunch of reds in UO there used to be pizza LOL. I joined KGB around 99. I have seen some good people come and go, some great people come and go and some people go that never should have come in the first place we found out in the end. But with every new game we grow, hell even without new games we grow. There is not a night that goes by that I don't get at least 1 person that says "Hey is that the KGB from...(insert game name here)?" We are known throughout the gaming communities, and I would say 85% of it is in a good way. That makes me proud.

This letter Jetstar got was meant to insult us, not invite us. And I take that as an insult. He said "Don't send children here" well I say anyone that begins an "invitation" with "you guys are the zerg kings" basically are children. If you can't take the heat and intensity with which KGB plays their games then don't play. We are here to enjoy ourselves, play the game to the best of our abilities and most the time even win. All of us know that in RL and in game when we fall there is always someone HERE that can help us back up and back us up when nessisary.

I love you guys/gals. No matter where I have been or what I have been doing KGB has always been there in one way or another. I am proud to hold the KGB title and wear it with honor. I hold no other guild above my own. And I really need to quit posting after taking Tylenol Cold Nighttime cuz it gets long and drawn out LOL

This guy that sent this letter, he can kiss my KGB ass.

So, the Z word again, is it?

I have heard that so many times, and I've explained the situation in more forums than I can count.

It boils down to a difference in philosophy. With a lot of gamers, it's all me, Me, ME. "I'M the one with the mad 'l33t skilz, so duel me, biatch, and get pwned!" Or so they say until a KGB squad rolls through, dry loots him, and kills his horse as payment for past crimes. So they sputter about how 'unfair' it is.

It's just combat. Nothing fancy, nothing to brag about, and it isn't a spectator sport. In UO, it was a job that needed to be done, killin' pk rat bastards that desperately needed killin', and there wasn't time to waste on anything fancy, because there was always another bunch of reds around the next corner, and they needed killin', too.

I think our tactics evolved the way they did because we did have a bunch of current and former military, so small unit tactics developed early and easily, and we found it to be the most efficient way dispatch our enemies. This is not to say that we didn't have some deadly players. Binbs, among other, was one of the most deadly solo players I've ever seen, and in a group, he was a force of nature - unstoppable. Many of our Champions were the same.

But if you don't have an automatic killin' machine with you, a good solid KGB squad was almost as good. The bad guys hated us because we were good at our job, and more often than not, we came out on top, and even if we didn't, we just kept coming back and eventually wore the opposition down, if nothing else.

Why does the KGB continue? For the same reason that most combat veterans will tell you why they fight. When you're in the shit, it's not politics, ideology, nationalism, patriotism, or any of that. You fight because of the guy next to you, and you'd rather die than let that guy down.

That is why the KGB will always continue.

I'm thinking the main point of all of this is why do we continue? No we aren't a perfect clan with perfect rules that are followed perfectly every time. We are a family. We screw up we get messed up but we always have someone there to help knock the dust off and get back up. KGB was never about any one game. We were bout an idea. Doing what is right, helping out the little guy, fighting against greifers and morons.
KGB isn't perfect. What we are is persistent. We are a light in a very dark world. Even when KGB was at its lowest, few people posting or even after a horrible split. The 'idea, the heartbeat, the light whatever you want to call it continued. KGB is a family, bound by common interest and goals, ready for that next call to battle whether it be to game or to help a friend. Brother before ourselves.

LOL. Wow. Ganshauk. I seem to recall that name from some dead screen shot I got a medal for. Ah well. Many have commented here and of course, some of the comments have been excellent and well thought out and some have not (read that as Syev..LOL)

KGB still exists because Jet had a dream and refused to let it die, even under the weight of countless internal strifes and even more external hatred. Everyone hates KGB that is not a member because, for better or worse, KGB had ideals that could be looked on as shining examples, KGB was not afraid to stick up for those ideals, even against what would seem to be insurmountable odds and in the end, in most cases, KGB came out on top, which further fueled the hatred. Not everyone followed every rule to the letter of the law, but in most cases things worked out one way or the other. It is the petty mind of the loser who creates terms like "zerg" in order to rationalize the fact that they could not measure up to the leetness they dreamed they were in whatever game they played. It is ironic that when KGB were being rolled by the members of various other guilds shortly after our migration to Seige Perilous, no one ever said they were zerging us. LOL. And we would not have had it any other way.

In it's history, going on 10 solid years now, KGB has been represented in almost every online gaming world you can think of. And through all of that, MOST of the membership tried hard to live up to the ideals the guild was founded on and that they believed in. Like any large unit, there were differences and those that could be worked out were and those that could not resulted in fractures, but the dream and the ideal at the core remained the same.

If all the perfect people in the room will leave, then Ganshauk and everyone else who thinks as he does can stand up and be proclaimed emperor for the day. Otherwise, KGB will still exist because of the core people who have deemed it is something they want to continue to fight for and believe in, regardless of the other people of the gaming world, myself included. Can't take that Gan, then continue to work on your own thing. I doubt you will ever see KGB there, but then, you didn't really want them there with that weak ass "invite".

I have called many KGB brother and sister, have met people through its hallowed halls who have become my friends for as many years as it has existed. I think fondly of the times I shared the banner and raised it high in defense of them and the codes we chose to live by. That I eventually left over disagreements within the enforcement of that code does not diminish those friendships for me one bit. I enjoy knowing that for good or bad, I will see KGB in almost every gaming world I venture too, either beside me or across from me in some form. And the fact that they will be in a unit, spearheaded by someone I call friend will not deter me, nor anger me. It will be. Because that, Ganshauk, is what it means to be KGB.

*Raises a Beer in to old comrades and friends* Keep rocking KGB. Darkfall HAS got to come out someday.

Yeah I had a response to Vuldan's post much like Jet's. Definitely one of the most mature (both in Wisdom and Age :P) CxC around. He may not say much around these parts anymore, but when he does it's something of true value to say. It's a shame he left the KGB, and it's a shame so many of them have animosity towards us, it'd sort of be nice to have a reliable ally in Darkfall rather than a friendly rivalry.

Some of my random thoughts:

1. Zerg = Large unorganized rabble. Whether this is what KGB has or has not done in the past, it should strive to avoid this and have strong forward-offensive leadership placed in PVP games - and followers should FOLLOW orders. Hippy day can happen once the battle is over.

2. Judging by what Ganshauk has stated, he is quite obviously pretentious and likes to hear himself speak. "I hated you guys" and "I ran with some mean SOB's back then...". Yes, everyone toots their own horn once in a while, but when approaching a leader from seemingly out of nowhere, why would he even bother bringing some of that stuff up? Who gives a rat's ass how he viewed or felt about KGB? I'm not even big into guild politics and I can see that this character's diplomacy and statesmanship are negligible. However, how he expresses himself toward KGB did bring up an issue/idea:

If KGB wants to survive as a Guild in MMOPVP, then the focus should be on; "Are we respected?" more than "Are we liked?" Regardless of either of those questions, KGB should always be trusted, considering the word "Knight" is in the title.

3. The fact that this guy has hated KGB tells me that he either respects KGB enough to invite us into a server and see what happens, or less likely; he's itching for KGB to go down the same as UDL did on his server.

4. I noticed that some people have brought up the "PK" and "Anti-PK" thing concerning the matter. PK = Player Killer. However, when a game avatar/character dies, the player is still very much alive. The acronym is misleading. Then you have "Anti-PKs." People that are against the killing of players. Very misleading. When UO began, it was among some of the first times most of KGB members (past or present) began online gaming - for real... and were exposed to players who randomly killed other player's characters. After a while the whole "red and blue" concept emerged. "Us vs Them." So now you had Reds always being the bad guys and non-reds looking to vindicate themselves against the reds. But both were still killing each other.

What I am getting at is this: The whole red and blue concept is now outdated and bullshit. It's black and white. NOTHING in life, or in gaming, is black and white - no matter how hard game designers develop mechanics to attempt this. Yes, in WOW you had Horde vs Alliance. But you still had pricks on the Alliance side screwing over other alliance...and getting away with it.

In games that KGB folk appear to be focused on, there will no longer be "red and blue" or black and white bs. So it's best to put that in the past. What WILL happen are various nations struggling for power. Some will ally with others. Some will conquer others. Some will destroy themselves from within through distrust, lack of discipline, and petty squabbling. The silliest thing though, is that Some will call themselves "Good" and some will call themselves "Evil." WTF is that? Gradeschool gaming? Most or all of us are adults now. Good is not good because it says it is. The same goes for evil. Goodness comes from how well other nations trust you - whether they are enemies or not. This may sound vague, but it isn't. Allies will believe you good because they trust your word. Enemies would believe KGB good by viewing how KGB deals with it's allies and how well we are trusted by them. That's as far as you can take the concept of "Good and Evil" in a Game of Thrones.

For KGB to dominate or at least thrive in MMOPVP games, it is going to need to hold on to what honor it has earned, buck up, and be Proactive. Not Reactive. "Anti-PK" smacks of Reactivity. You will never win a battle or war through reactivity. Defense never gains the upper hand against enemies - it only holds the enemy at bay long enough to survive. A wise general will always be one step ahead, causing the enemy to react. Thus a wise general holds most or all the cards. The enemy, being forced to react, will have plans only for countering attacks, rather than spearheading his own designs. In a world of uncertainty, it is best to be the Eagle/Wolf/Bear what-have-you, on the offensive, than it is to be the Turtle, hiding in its shell, waiting to die. For more information on this philosophy, consult the "Art of War" by Sun Tzu - it is perhaps the most useful and practical guidebook to winning battles and wars.

5. I hope what I wrote above may answer "How can KGB continue to exist?" since many others have already answered how it has managed to exist thus far. However, if that email would have been sent to me, I would simply reply: "I appreciate the invitation to your server. I may have some people look into it." Then I would say no more and indeed, send some people over to look into the server... Without further thought on the matter.

Ok, I'm done and am going to go watch a movie with Emily (Ironrose). Good day...

I remember playing Starcraft.... my Zerging was actually always very organized ^_^

In any case, regarding your points about PK/anti-PK and proactivity we have been a step or 2 ahead of that for some time. No worries on that regard, trust me when I say modern KGB actually has similar Rules of Engagement to many other PvP oriented guilds.

Waaaaaaay back in UO, you had the unique phenominae of people wishing to play MMO EQ-style for loot, or just with their friends who had no interest in killing or being killed. It was "the" graphical MUD so to speak, and attempted to be a "world" in of itself, with the crafting etc.

This created a compelling "good vs evil" RP scenario.

That simply doesnt happen anymore. Games now are typically either limited PvP, to the point where it doesnt matter, or full-pvp and those who dont want PvP play non-PvP games. So now we simply RP "Knights". (in VERY VERY loose sense, of "RP")

In fact the latest Constitution Revamp was at least partially to eliminate more holdover from the UO days.

Things were different back then, and KGB as a whole, including its leadership is and has been highly cognizant of that fact.