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#140191 - 04/11/17 02:40 AM Re: Trump card [Re: Owain]  
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Originally Posted by Owain
We have personnel in the middle east. Unrestricted use of chemical weapons in the middle east is a threat to those personnel, and is not in our national interests.


These are all active military and diplomats. If they get gassed, it will be act of war with the whole world sympathetic. Nobody is that stupid, not when roadside bomb works just as well at actually killing.

Originally Posted by Owain
We have allies and alliances in effect in the middle east. Unrestricted use of chemical weapons poses a risk to those allies and alliances, and is not in our national interests.


I disagree that any of these allies are worth protecting to that degree. Only if you can demonstrate that chemical weapons could uniquely disrupt the flow of oil would you have a point.

Quote
The United States is a signatory to the Chemical Weapons Convention arms control treaty.


The US is also a signatory to the Paris Agreement, but I don't see you advocating carbon tax. There are many other treaties and agreements, including UN, you are simply citing this one because it is convenient.


Again, this is Hollywood sequel of Bush' WMDs. Uncertain information, ulterior motives and inevitable budget-busting expenditures. At best, we will find out how good Russian military tech is. At worst, we will lose a hot war with Russia and embolden them to retake Eastern Europe. In no scenario that I could see after regime change could we end up with Syria as anything other than complete Sharia run by bearded clerics.

Last edited by Sini; 04/11/17 02:50 AM.

#140192 - 04/11/17 04:56 AM Re: Trump card [Re: Sini]  
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Pearl Harbor was an act of war, and the world was sympathetic, but Imperial Japan attacked anyway. If Assad thought he could get away with it, he'd do it. He crossed Obama's Red Line, and nothing happened. It was in our national interest to demonstrate to him that craven policy is no longer in effect.


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#140193 - 04/11/17 07:49 PM Re: Trump card [Re: Sini]  
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#140194 - 04/11/17 09:19 PM Re: Trump card [Re: Goriom]  
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Originally Posted by Goriom

ZOOOOMMMMMMMGGGGGGGGGGG

Though Hitler used them in the Concentration camps he did not use them on the Battlefield in WWII I"m pretty sure that's what he was meaning. He even says that... but yeah the left is butthurt still and will to try to find anything to hang their hat on.

Quote
"But I'm saying that in the way that Assad used them where he went in towns, dropped them down to innocent - into the middle of towns - it was brought - so the use of it - I appreciate the clarification," Spicer said, before concluding, "That was not the intent."

Last edited by Wolfgang; 04/11/17 09:20 PM.
#140195 - 04/11/17 09:35 PM Re: Trump card [Re: Sini]  
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I imagine that no one used chemical weapons on the battlefield in WWII, not even Hitler, was because the memory of their use in WWI was too fresh. Hitler himself was partially blinded in a mustard gas attack near Ypres in Belgium.


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#140198 - 04/11/17 10:54 PM Re: Trump card [Re: Wolfgang]  
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Originally Posted by Wolfgang
Originally Posted by Goriom

ZOOOOMMMMMMMGGGGGGGGGGG

Though Hitler used them in the Concentration camps he did not use them on the Battlefield in WWII I"m pretty sure that's what he was meaning. He even says that... but yeah the left is butthurt still and will to try to find anything to hang their hat on.

Quote
"But I'm saying that in the way that Assad used them where he went in towns, dropped them down to innocent - into the middle of towns - it was brought - so the use of it - I appreciate the clarification," Spicer said, before concluding, "That was not the intent."



Because Hitler never used Gas on his own people?

#140199 - 04/11/17 11:32 PM Re: Trump card [Re: Goriom]  
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Originally Posted by Goriom
Originally Posted by Wolfgang
Originally Posted by Goriom

ZOOOOMMMMMMMGGGGGGGGGGG

Though Hitler used them in the Concentration camps he did not use them on the Battlefield in WWII I"m pretty sure that's what he was meaning. He even says that... but yeah the left is butthurt still and will to try to find anything to hang their hat on.

Quote
"But I'm saying that in the way that Assad used them where he went in towns, dropped them down to innocent - into the middle of towns - it was brought - so the use of it - I appreciate the clarification," Spicer said, before concluding, "That was not the intent."



Because Hitler never used Gas on his own people?

Maybe you should refresh your history of the holocaust. German jews were killed... meaning they were from ding ding ding... GERMANY! They did deport a lot of them and a bunch left, but the German Jews that remained were sent to two concentration camps one of which was Auschwitz.

#140200 - 04/11/17 11:54 PM Re: Trump card [Re: Wolfgang]  
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Originally Posted by Wolfgang
Originally Posted by Goriom
Originally Posted by Wolfgang
Originally Posted by Goriom

ZOOOOMMMMMMMGGGGGGGGGGG

Though Hitler used them in the Concentration camps he did not use them on the Battlefield in WWII I"m pretty sure that's what he was meaning. He even says that... but yeah the left is butthurt still and will to try to find anything to hang their hat on.

Quote
"But I'm saying that in the way that Assad used them where he went in towns, dropped them down to innocent - into the middle of towns - it was brought - so the use of it - I appreciate the clarification," Spicer said, before concluding, "That was not the intent."



Because Hitler never used Gas on his own people?

Maybe you should refresh your history of the holocaust. German jews were killed... meaning they were from ding ding ding... GERMANY! They did deport a lot of them and a bunch left, but the German Jews that remained were sent to two concentration camps one of which was Auschwitz.


Yeah, exactly, I guess i have to add /s to the end of my sentences now? Spicer fucked up, dudes dumb. His clarification when a journalist followed up with him was even worse. I'm getting sick of having to infer what this administration says. Don't take me for my words, its what was meant behind what i said that's important! hur dur.

Last edited by Goriom; 04/11/17 11:57 PM.
#140201 - 04/12/17 12:10 AM Re: Trump card [Re: Owain]  
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Originally Posted by Owain
That was what our response intended to deter. Unrestricted use. If any use results in one getting hammered, unrestricted use is deterred.

It is a feeble excuse if there is no evidence to suggest it in this incident. What evidence have you seen?

But, I suppose that when one is searching for an excuse, any old excuse will do, including that one.


This makes me scratch my head a bit, because my whole point is that there is no good evidence for anything. Instead of advocating a knee-jerk reaction based on something really vague, I'm simply pointing out that both the sensible and Constitutional courses of action lie in waiting and seeing. If Assad indeed started using chemical weapons in a significant way, then surely actual evidence would pile up. Since the chances of his doing so - even in a worst-case scenario - in a fashion that would impact us is next to zero, there is no reason to be flying off the handle. Our planes and missiles will still be ready to launch in the event Assad did anything that actually threatened or annoyed us.

Originally Posted by Owain
Pearl Harbor was an act of war, and the world was sympathetic, but Imperial Japan attacked anyway. If Assad thought he could get away with it, he'd do it. He crossed Obama's Red Line, and nothing happened. It was in our national interest to demonstrate to him that craven policy is no longer in effect.


Except Assad actually didn't cross Obama's red line, because the chemical weapons were actually used by rebels, and supplied by our "allies" of Saudi Arabia and Qatar. Hillary actually wanted to go to war, but Kerry was incoming SOS and actually did his job.

On another note, I'm honestly and truly surprised to see self-identifying conservatives so vehement about enlisting the armed forces of the USA in the service of ISIS and their ilk.


For who could be free when every other man's humour might domineer over him? - John Locke (2nd Treatise, sect 57)
#140224 - 04/13/17 12:10 AM Re: Trump card [Re: Derid]  
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Originally Posted by Derid
On another note, I'm honestly and truly surprised to see self-identifying conservatives so vehement about enlisting the armed forces of the USA in the service of ISIS and their ilk.


Or self-identifying fiscal conservatives suggesting we bankroll another middle eastern war. How much did Iraq cost?


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