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#140166 - 04/09/17 04:02 AM Re: Trump card [Re: Wolfgang]  
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Originally Posted by Wolfgang
LOL mission to Mars... that will improve things here immensely.


Correct. Humanity has a short window of time, relatively speaking, to spread into space and branch off civilization if we want to avoid either extinction or the type of dystopian future that would've given Philip K Dick cold sweats.

Originally Posted by Wolfgang
If Assad truly didn't gas those people they need to start laying out the evidence.


Prove a negative? Start with common sense aspect though, why would the regime, full well knowing the sensitivity of the chemical issue, gas a measly 50 odd people. Iraq at least managed to gas tens of thousands with the chemical weapons we gave them in the 80's.

Originally Posted by Wolfgang
If Trump did nothing you and every liberal/Progressive in the land would be screaming as to why he didn't do it. It's dammed if you do dammed if you don't.


This much is true, and in fact most of the left leaning sites, both boutique and mainstream were in fact screaming for war. But the fact that the left is utterly asinine is no good reason to ignore due process of declaring war, nor getting involved in a shit fest in Syria. And make no mistake - other than the Kurds, there are no pro-western rebels. They are all Sunni nutjobs, and they will all continue to massacre and drive out the remaining Christians.



For who could be free when every other man's humour might domineer over him? - John Locke (2nd Treatise, sect 57)
#140168 - 04/09/17 06:49 PM Re: Trump card [Re: Derid]  
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Originally Posted by Derid
Originally Posted by Wolfgang
LOL mission to Mars... that will improve things here immensely.


Correct. Humanity has a short window of time, relatively speaking, to spread into space and branch off civilization if we want to avoid either extinction or the type of dystopian future that would've given Philip K Dick cold sweats.

Originally Posted by Wolfgang
If Assad truly didn't gas those people they need to start laying out the evidence.


Prove a negative? Start with common sense aspect though, why would the regime, full well knowing the sensitivity of the chemical issue, gas a measly 50 odd people. Iraq at least managed to gas tens of thousands with the chemical weapons we gave them in the 80's.

Originally Posted by Wolfgang
If Trump did nothing you and every liberal/Progressive in the land would be screaming as to why he didn't do it. It's dammed if you do dammed if you don't.


This much is true, and in fact most of the left leaning sites, both boutique and mainstream were in fact screaming for war. But the fact that the left is utterly asinine is no good reason to ignore due process of declaring war, nor getting involved in a shit fest in Syria. And make no mistake - other than the Kurds, there are no pro-western rebels. They are all Sunni nutjobs, and they will all continue to massacre and drive out the remaining Christians.


Don't get me Wrong I think space exploration should move forward and we should look for places that could be inhabited for the future. But right now we have a $20 trillion debt, I think we need to get other things in order before we start spending a lot of money on space. Everyone wants to believe we are to big to fail, that is utter bullshit the left has made up in their little pink unicorn Utopian bubble they want to live in.



Chemical Gas... I sort of agree there's an aspect here that is of some concern. It makes no sense why someone winning a war would risk everything to gas people. But then again crazy people don't think like everyone else. If they are innocent as they say I don't see the issue of them either letting people in to investigate. Otherwise it's perception. If you happen to be one to open carry and someone shoots another person and takes off and you are the only one around with a gun the perception is you did it. In which case once investigated would be cleared of wrong doing. Which is why the same thing should happen with Syria... if they don't allow an investigation they are implicating themselves.



Last edited by Wolfgang; 04/09/17 07:42 PM.
#140169 - 04/09/17 07:15 PM Re: Trump card [Re: Wolfgang]  
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Originally Posted by Wolfgang


Prove a negative? Start with common sense aspect though, why would the regime, full well knowing the sensitivity of the chemical issue, gas a measly 50 odd people. Iraq at least managed to gas tens of thousands with the chemical weapons we gave them in the 80's.

For the same reason Saddam used chemical agents on his own people. Middle eastern despots rule by fear.


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#140170 - 04/09/17 08:10 PM Re: Trump card [Re: Owain]  
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Originally Posted by Owain
Originally Posted by Wolfgang


Prove a negative? Start with common sense aspect though, why would the regime, full well knowing the sensitivity of the chemical issue, gas a measly 50 odd people. Iraq at least managed to gas tens of thousands with the chemical weapons we gave them in the 80's.

For the same reason Saddam used chemical agents on his own people. Middle eastern despots rule by fear.


The scale was quite different though, and the US was opposing Assad using any chem weapons, whereas the US had given Saddam his. Is it possible Assad, or someone in his regime made a gross miscalculation? Assuredly. But in the news articles I parsed, one thing that was glaringly lacking was actual evidence, or any type of reliable information from the ground. Instead, it was a bunch of opinion and "ohhhh the children" type emotional BS and clickbait. Very little detail on what happened or how, in favor of expounding on how horrible it was.

Quote
But then again crazy people don't think like everyone else. If they are innocent as they say I don't see the issue of them either letting people in the investigate. Otherwise it's perception. If you happen to be one to open carry and someone shoots another person and takes off and you are the only one around with a gun the perception is you did it. In which case once investigated would be cleared of wrong doing. Which is why the same thing should happen with Syria... if they don't allow an investigation they are implicating themselves.


But who would investigate, and how? If the area is rebel held, which it must be, otherwise why bomb it, how would Assad be able to facilitate an investigation anyhow? Plus, I have never seen anything to lead me to believe Assad is insane. He might not be softhearted, but that is different than insanity or irrationality.

I do have a bit of sympathy for the Alawite minority he represents. The Alawites and Christians in Syria have long stuck together because they are surrounded by rabid Sunni extremists who if not suppressed, would in fact slaughter and rape their way into a failed state similar Afghanistan under the Taliban.


For who could be free when every other man's humour might domineer over him? - John Locke (2nd Treatise, sect 57)
#140171 - 04/09/17 08:40 PM Re: Trump card [Re: Derid]  
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Originally Posted by Derid

But in the news articles I parsed, one thing that was glaringly lacking was actual evidence, or any type of reliable information from the ground.

It's just possible that the President with the entire intelligence assets of the United States at his command might have better information available than people writing news articles.


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#140172 - 04/09/17 08:55 PM Re: Trump card [Re: Owain]  
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Originally Posted by Owain
That is why we have elections, to sort these things out, and Trump is the man elected for the job.


He run on exactly opposite of what he is doing - explicit election promise to not get involved in more Middle East wars.


#140173 - 04/09/17 09:01 PM Re: Trump card [Re: Owain]  
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Originally Posted by Owain
Originally Posted by Derid

But in the news articles I parsed, one thing that was glaringly lacking was actual evidence, or any type of reliable information from the ground.

It's just possible that the President with the entire intelligence assets of the United States at his command might have better information available than people writing news articles.

Theoretically, he might have access to it, but he has shown to distrust intelligence community. As such, it is safe to assume he have seen something on late-night TV and decided to bomb based on that.

This was done for one of the two reason - political move to signal coming home to establishment or foolish reaction to media hysteria.


#140175 - 04/09/17 09:11 PM Re: Trump card [Re: Sini]  
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Originally Posted by Sini
Originally Posted by Owain
That is why we have elections, to sort these things out, and Trump is the man elected for the job.


He run on exactly opposite of what he is doing - explicit election promise to not get involved in more Middle East wars.

Now that he has better information at his disposal, I would hope that he would use that information as necessary.

Originally Posted by Sini
[quote=Owain][quote=Derid]
This was done for one of the two reason - political move to signal coming home to establishment or foolish reaction to media hysteria.

Or it might have been done for foreign policy purposes, since it is in our national interest to deter the use of chemical weapons in the region.


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#140176 - 04/09/17 09:22 PM Re: Trump card [Re: Owain]  
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Originally Posted by Owain
it is in our national interest to deter the use of chemical weapons in the region.


Can you outline how this could possibly be the case?


#140177 - 04/09/17 09:23 PM Re: Trump card [Re: Sini]  
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