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Re: Some thoughts on the upcoming Holidays JetStar #24596 12/23/07 03:34 PM
Joined: May 2006 Posts: 6,212 Likes: 1 Crusading Drakiis KGB Supreme Knight
Drakiis KGB Supreme Knight Joined: May 2006 Posts: 6,212 Likes: 1 Crusading	Quote: FRIENDS LIST A FRIENDS list will be established and friends given access to the KGB ALLIES FORUM here at the Oracle. Both Federal and Faction governments would keep posted (Using the KGB Wiki) an accurate and updated list at all times. Anyone on the Friends list may NEVER be attacked without specific permission from the FACTION or FEDERAL GOVERNMENT In the case of treason, what then? In this case of treason or betrayal, what if only one person witnesses it, and no Officials are on at the time of the incident? Are you saying that the criminal is to be allowed to continue doing damage and then escape without any opposition? Quote: ENGAGEMENT If an individual is not an ally, assume he/she is a threat. You may engage first--the highest ranking officer present at the scene at the time will make that decision. However, above all act honorably. No griefing, trash talking. Conversations are fine, but represent the honor of the guild well in both deed and in word. In my humble opinion, what might be best served here is instead of instilling an highly aggressive attitude upon members since that is the general state all players will have already being that it's pvp, remind them more of being cautious, and warning those they come across that they are prepared to fight if given a reason to. Warnings ultimateums and demands can open up dialog which may avoid a problem altogether or learn information otherwise unknown. If ignored then I could understand a threat level increase and eventual hostilities. I'd hate to be attacked by KGB as I walk up to a group just because I am automatically considered a THREAT. Quote: CORPSE CAMPING KGB engages in corpse camping only as retaliation for camping KGB members or allies. The ranking officer at the scene must announce to the corpse, "KGB engages in corpse camping only as punishment for corpse camping our membership. You have assisted and or committed this offense against our Guild or allies, therefore you are being punished. Please log out". The act of corpse camping is camping a dead player and killing them again and again when they clearly have no chance to defend themselves. This is pretty typical, and understandable. I like that so far the rules are simple, and whether intended or not three rules make following ROE's easier to remember. Sticking with three ROE's, I would replace the last one, since it represents common practice, with something that goes into more detail about RPK activities unrelated to griefing. Griefing as it stands is simple to incorperate into ROE's by simply stating that "Any activity looked upon as Griefing will be met with equal force" Basically ROEs usually refer to Seeing an Enemy, Being Attacked by an Enemy, Those harboring Enemies, Enemies locations and bases of operations, Enemies alliances and logistical operations, or enemy covert or unconventional movements or activities. I hope I'm not being overly judgemental, or obsessive concerning this topic and if so I apologize. Last edited by Drakiis; 12/23/07 03:38 PM. I am Wrath, I am Steel, I am the Mercy of Angels. mors est merces mea – death is my reward morte in vitam non habet tenaci - Death has no grip on Life.

Re: Some thoughts on the upcoming Holidays JetStar #24597 12/23/07 04:19 PM
Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 875 Bay Area, California Syloc Band 6
Syloc Band 6 Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 875 Bay Area, California	Quote: ENGAGEMENT If an individual is not an ally, assume he/she is a threat. You may engage first--the highest ranking officer present at the scene at the time will make that decision. However, above all act honorably. No griefing, trash talking. Conversations are fine, but represent the honor of the guild well in both deed and in word. The phrase "no griefing" is a bit vague. To what extent do you mean griefing? The term griefing, per say, implies that one cannot instigate the fight at all, unless provoked in some way. Does this mean you'll only instigate fights versus known enemies? Or how about versus composed of rpk classes. I mean even though you may not know the names, you can kinda tell. A bit of a technicality, but it may cause indecision. Putting the charge on the highest ranking officer will suffice. In some respects, AoC is all about being the agressor so, in some rare situtations, you may have to take actions that may be considered griefing. Just bored, seems like a great discussion. -Syloc Daggerfingers Former KGB Member

Re: Some thoughts on the upcoming Holidays Syloc #24598 12/23/07 11:48 PM
Joined: May 2006 Posts: 6,212 Likes: 1 Crusading Drakiis KGB Supreme Knight
Drakiis KGB Supreme Knight Joined: May 2006 Posts: 6,212 Likes: 1 Crusading	Quote: The phrase "no griefing" is a bit vague. To what extent do you mean griefing? The term griefing, per say, implies that one cannot instigate the fight at all, unless provoked in some way. Does this mean you'll only instigate fights versus known enemies? Or how about versus composed of rpk classes. I mean even though you may not know the names, you can kinda tell. A bit of a technicality, but it may cause indecision. Putting the charge on the highest ranking officer will suffice. In some respects, AoC is all about being the agressor so, in some rare situtations, you may have to take actions that may be considered griefing. Just bored, seems like a great discussion. -Syloc Daggerfingers Corpse camping is considered griefing, by definition griefing is doing something to someone repeatedly in which the game offers no way of dealing with individually short of logging out, reporting that individual to the CS dept, or calling on guild members to help you out. I am Wrath, I am Steel, I am the Mercy of Angels. mors est merces mea – death is my reward morte in vitam non habet tenaci - Death has no grip on Life.

Re: Some thoughts on the upcoming Holidays Drakiis #24599 12/24/07 12:49 AM
Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 875 Bay Area, California Syloc Band 6
Syloc Band 6 Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 875 Bay Area, California	Well technically, we're assuming that AoC has an ingame respawn outside of getting your corpse back. Not really corpse camping persay, because it prevents someone who would normally attack you, so it's really a preventive measure on your part. I guess i've always thought of griefing as an uninstigated attack or action on another player for no other reason than to annoying/enrage the other person. Hence, he's being "griefed". So retaliating by corpse camping back isn't technicaly corpse camping cause the point isn't to cause grief to the other person but rather to dissuade him from attacking your group. Then again, i'm just picking at straws. On the topic of attacking non-identified possible threats, I think it is warrented on a full loot server. While some mistakes will happen, saying sorry and giving the stuff back to a friend is much easier than trying to get back your loot from an enemy. Former KGB Member

Re: Some thoughts on the upcoming Holidays Syloc #24600 12/24/07 08:44 AM
Joined: May 2006 Posts: 6,212 Likes: 1 Crusading Drakiis KGB Supreme Knight
Drakiis KGB Supreme Knight Joined: May 2006 Posts: 6,212 Likes: 1 Crusading	Good points Syloc, definately what I was trying to say... I am Wrath, I am Steel, I am the Mercy of Angels. mors est merces mea – death is my reward morte in vitam non habet tenaci - Death has no grip on Life.

Re: Some thoughts on the upcoming Holidays Drakiis #24601 12/24/07 12:53 PM
Joined: Dec 2007 Posts: 448 Revol Former KGB Member
Revol Former KGB Member Joined: Dec 2007 Posts: 448	Quote: The phrase "no griefing" is a bit vague. To what extent do you mean griefing? The term griefing, per say, implies that one cannot instigate the fight at all, unless provoked in some way. I would disagree with this. That's a very large blanket statement to put over on a term. This is the way I see it. There are two sides of the coin; on one side, is the griefer. On the other, is the honor-abider. A warrior who lives by honor, can instigate a fight under the right circumstances... what those circumstances are, are what I believe the KGB are trying to find right now. I don't think you'd ever see a group of KGBers rolling over a smaller group of lower level avatars, unless perhaps they were a guild that we despised because they use such 'grief' tactics such as that. I think we had such rules in place on the server that I first joined the KGB on, the DAoC PvP server, Andred. I believe it was a rule that we couldn't attack people below our level.. or am I mistaken? I've always played PvP MMOs with the KGB because they play with honor. It's simply the kind of person I am, I don't care to play the griefer. And really, this is how it's always been. 'Anti-RPK' was just one way to play the 'honor' guild. Now, the KGB will need to find another way. (Not that every RPK guild is a 'griefer' guild. Some of the best guilds out there are honorable RPKs, and those are the guilds the KGB always enjoy playing with. And with that, I suppose there would be 'anti-RPK griefer' guilds that exist, though I'm not sure how that would even work...) JetStar, as far as what you've got so far, I would agree with everything except one. You say that the highest ranking member in the KGB group would decide if they will corpse loot. I disagree; I would suggest that a KGB group may not corpse camp unless an actual OFFICER is there, General or above. Otherwise, you'll get instances of a zealous High Knight camping when it wasn't appropriate, or when they are knowledgeable in certain aspects of the political scene that only officers would be. Former KGB Member

Re: Some thoughts on the upcoming Holidays Drakiis #24602 12/24/07 03:01 PM
Joined: Apr 2007 Posts: 718 V Vipir
Vipir V Joined: Apr 2007 Posts: 718	Quote: FRIENDS LIST A FRIENDS list will be established and friends given access to the KGB ALLIES FORUM here at the Oracle. Both Federal and Faction governments would keep posted (Using the KGB Wiki) an accurate and updated list at all times. Anyone on the Friends list may NEVER be attacked without specific permission from the FACTION or FEDERAL GOVERNMENT Yah i see one big problem here. For some reason some of the guild's we allaince with have jackoffs in thier guild, who find it funny to attack and kill us. From experaince you guys go talk to them, it does no good they come right back and do it again. Now i give you once because of the guild rule. But i think twice is asking a bit much, if they were really allies it wouldnt have happend a second time. He would have been delt with the first time and it made clear it wasnt acceptable. There needs to be a rule in place to protect us from guilds who can not control thier members, or for us to deal with the members they can not handel. Last edited by Vipir; 12/24/07 04:59 PM. I have a high art, I hurt with cruelty those who would seek to damage me.

Re: Some thoughts on the upcoming Holidays Vipir #24603 12/24/07 05:39 PM
Joined: Dec 2005 Posts: 941 League City, TX Daye KGB Supreme Knight
Daye KGB Supreme Knight Joined: Dec 2005 Posts: 941 League City, TX	I wonder if we'll see the crew from JDD this time around Typically the way we've handled the ' loose cannons ' of a friendly guild is to simply kill the player. Repeatedly, if necessary, and let the other guilds membership know that if Player X continues to be an ass while flying their flag, they can either drop the player from the guild or risk the entire guild going KOS for the actions of a few. shrug This is going to be a tricky stance to maintain. On the one hand we have a full loot wide open pvp system to contend with. That alone is going to set up a shoot first ask questions later mentality with EVERYONE on the server. I think friendly / kos lists will be nice in theory, but in reality if a crew shows up on track or is spotted near a KGB levelling / pvp group then the fight will likely be on. Be them friendly, KOS, or unknown. On the other, we are KGB. As such, we have a reputation to live up to. Which, unfortunately, does not mesh well with the environment we will be playing in. Guess we'll all have to roll a stealth capable character ! lol The closest setup would have been under UO. Other than the Red = Dead policy, can any of the rule sets from that era be salvaged / tweaked for Conan ?

Re: Some thoughts on the upcoming Holidays Daye #24604 12/24/07 07:21 PM
Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 875 Bay Area, California Syloc Band 6
Syloc Band 6 Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 875 Bay Area, California	If errant members of friendly guilds are such a possible problem, couldn't you just have established rules with guilds at the onset of an alliance. Rules like, "We reserve the right to act against any alliance members that have been known to act against KgB?" Well not verbetum, but something along those lines. Have to agree with the importance of reputation, in a full loot server, it would dictate a lot of what happens. Former KGB Member

Re: Some thoughts on the upcoming Holidays Syloc #24605 12/24/07 10:16 PM
Joined: Dec 2007 Posts: 448 Revol Former KGB Member
Revol Former KGB Member Joined: Dec 2007 Posts: 448	Quote: Yah i see one big problem here. For some reason some of the guild's we allaince with have jackoffs in thier guild, who find it funny to attack and kill us. From experaince you guys go talk to them, it does no good they come right back and do it again. Now i give you once because of the guild rule. But i think twice is asking a bit much, if they were really allies it wouldnt have happend a second time. He would have been delt with the first time and it made clear it wasnt acceptable. There needs to be a rule in place to protect us from guilds who can not control thier members, or for us to deal with the members they can not handel. It's simple; we just wouldn't be allies with those guilds. The KGB don't just friend up with anyone, and if a guild can't control their members, why be their ally? Former KGB Member

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