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Ron Paul Is Feuding with His Fans

Quote:
Ron Paul is feuding with his rabid fan base over the ownership of RonPaul.com. Paul wants it, but his fans own it. They're willing to sell it to him... for a price Paul doesn't agree with. So now he's taken the dispute all the way to the United Nations.


UN!

Ron Paul!

Over open market transaction dispute.

LOLOLOLOL


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You needed more proof that Ron is a senile hypocrite wack-job? Some of what the man says make sense. Actually a lot of what he says is sound but that doesn't mean that everything he does is gospel, as the Paulites seem to think.

I believe there are some newsletters of his from the 90's that highlight his wack-a-doodle mentality.

His son, on the other hand, seems to have his ducks in a row. Let's just hope that the hereditary senility doesn't set in for a few more years.

Now, the article:
Originally Posted By: The Scientologists
Paul was interviewed by Conservative radio show host Alex Jones
AAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHA Alex Jones is about as conservative as Sini. He's a complete conspiracy theory boob who thinks that our politicians eat babies roasted in gold leaf. He is on record backing all kinds of far left whacko organizations just because they agree with one of his conspiracy theories. No principles at all.

Any organization willing to use quotes from some one with as little credibility as Jones (while not pointing out how little credibility he has), deserves the same lack of credibility conferred upon them. If they want to be taken seriously, a little research would have given them the Paul quote from a reasonable source. Either they want to associate Paul's ideas with Jones the whack-a-do, or they are so journalisticly inept that they can't be bothered to do real research. You decide.


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Ron Paul is a human, like any other. I havent passed any judgement on the case yet, too often a facile case is made by a person's detractors and tossed out for the peanut gallery.

Lots of people think Social Security shouldn't have been implemented for example, yet since they are forced to play under that system rightfully collect what they are entitled to.

If Paul has a case (which I am not certain of, not having take the time to actually look in depth) and the only means of redress happens to be an international body, then I could hardly fault him for going that route. Doing so , and having to do so could in fact strengthen not invalidate his insistence that the current international regulatory paradigm was a bad idea to begin with.


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Quote:
Some of what the man says make sense.


Yes it does, but this recent incident makes one doubt if Ron Paul was making sense intentionally or by accident.

If story to be believed, then Ron Paul is nothing but a populist playing its audience. Clearly, if he practiced what he preached he would not have attempted to involve an international agency, acting through extension of goverment authority, to what should have been open-market transaction. He is, no matter how charitable you are in interpreting, is trying to seize private property by force.

His action is inconsistent with the ideology that he has preached about.


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I take with a huge grain of salt any story Gawker breaks regarding a politician that does not conform to their neo-progressive worldview.

If the site was owned by another guy names Ron Paul, or promulgated an unaffiliated business or message then on the face of it Ron would be certainly in the wrong. However, since the site owners in question made their site and their money entirely by using the likeness of the politician Ron Paul the issue becomes a lot murkier.

If the site owners in question were abusing Ron Paul's name to propagate a message that sounded like in some regards, but was not, Ron Pauls message, and did so in a way that implied that it was in fact Ron Pauls message - then I believe Ron is morally entitled to redress - and such would be consistant with his - though not all of his supports' - world view.

As Ron has long held forth the Constitutional principle that citizens have a right to petition the govt for redress of grievances, and using a domain name and message that falsely gave the impression of speaking for you - and making money while doing it - would certainly be a firm moral ground for such a grievance.

As usual, people who hold no understanding of the ideologies and principles in play make facile judgements that suit their own prejudices.


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So much for Derid's rallying against government violently taking over private property.


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Uh huh. I can honestly say, it is rare to find someone more intellectually dishonest than you. You must work hard at it.


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The website does not belong to Ron Paul, if he wants it he should pay going market price for it.

Trying to take it away via goverment intervention flies against everything he preached and stood for up to this point.

So if I understand it right, Ron Paul's actions say to follow Libertarianism, but only for as long as does not personally inconvenience you.

Well, nice. Where do I sign up? In this case, I am too Ron Paul's kind of libertarian.


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This is not some "Big Govt" ploy. The owner of the domain signed a contract agreeing to ICANN arbitration in the event that the name was disputed. Ron Paul is simply following the agreed upon procedure, laid out in *contract* that the new domain owner signed, to contest the ownership. Again, things like contract are important libertarian cornerstones.

Well, Ron Paul has filed a dispute. You can try to make it sound like Big Govt all you want, but we both know the truth.

Dont you ever get tired of trolling by giving the impression that you dont know anything about anything? Or are you really as ignorant of the world as you make it appear on these forums?

I know my preferred form of trolling is not to intentionally and repeatedly make myself look stupid, but to each their own I suppose.


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Ron Paul is not party to that contract, nor does he have any valid claim to the domain, not being a unique Ron Paul, just one of the better known.

Your denial is understandable, with Ron Paul turning to be a phoney prophet of libertarianism faith.

On of the key gospels of libertarianism is freedom from coercion, especially when applied to private property. Ron Pauls actions go directly against this key principle, he is trying to coerce legitimate owner into less desirable deal with legal action.

This leaves us with two possibilities:

1. Libertarianism is flawed in some aspects
2. Ron Paul is acting against principles of libertarianism

Pick your poison.


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Be happy you did not choose to become a lawyer.

1) Your opinion regarding Ron Pauls claim is just that- an opinion, and an ill informed one at best.

2) The people using the Ron Paul domain were using Ron Pauls likeness. There are rules regarding cyber squatting. Your previous argument only has merit if people were using Ron Paul domain for purposes unrelated to the Ron Paul filing the dispute.

ie: if someone named Kobe Bryant registered KobeBryant.com , and used it for their personal blog then the "famous" Kobe Bryant would have no legit dispute. However if someone named Ralph (or Kobe) used the likeness of the "famous" Kobe Bryant and the entire monetary value of the site derived from using the persona and likeness of the "famous" Kobe Bryant then the "famous" Kobe Bryant would have a legit claim. Its called cybersquatting.

3) You seem to understand libertarianism about as well as you understand... well most things you discus. Which is not very well at all. Or maybe you just actually come to believe in the straw-men you create? Libertarianism does not mean people lack rights, and it does not invalidate contract. The current owners of the domain name signed a contract with an organization that has certain rules regarding things like domain squatting, and the procedures for contesting a domain were clearly laid forth. If a party has reason to believe they have a legitimate grievance, then filing said grievance with the governing body of said contract is perfectly libertarian. The only person who think that libertarian means lawlessness or abjuration of all rules is you.

4) Freedom from unwarranted and/or arbitrary govt coercion regarding private property is not the same as lawlessness or invalidating contract. That Ron Paul was not personally party to the contract does not change the fact that ICANN has certain rules and procedures in place that the domain owner agreed to upon obtaining the domain.


5) The fact that the owners of the site RonPaul.com used the likeness of the "famous" Ron Paul for gain is pretty much indisputable.

6) The fact that they (ronpaul.com owners) told the world that Ron Paul "went to the UN" is reprehensible, as is the fact that goggle-eyed media ate it up. Ron Paul filed an ICANN dispute per their rules, and ICANN simply assigned it to one of several registered mediation bodies as per their documented operating procedure.
--

As usual you try to pass of your flawed understanding of the world as validation for a flawed and false dichotomy.

With this, I am finished with serious replies - if you wish to continue flaunting your ignorance then by all means feel free. I will grab some popcorn and enjoy the spectacle.


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This is nothing but a partnership/business deal that went sour.

Up to this point Ron Paul had no interest in acquiring the domain, but he must have been aware of its existence since he benefited from it personally via fundraising. It is only when the deal entered price negotiations (buyout of stakeholders) when threats of legal action went into play.

Part of the domain dispute is the supporter's list and website infrastructure. This is above and beyond the scope of ICANN that only covers domain name. This further shows that appeal to ICANN is nothing less but interference in the business negotiation.


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Originally Posted By: sini
Part of the domain dispute is the supporter's list and website infrastructure.
I think you're confused here bud. The email list and infrastructure were part of the deal that the current owners offered. It didn't say anywhere that Paul is seeking those in this dispute. It's entirely possible that he doesn't want that stuff, that he only wants the domain name.


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Originally Posted By: Kaotic
Originally Posted By: sini
Part of the domain dispute is the supporter's list and website infrastructure.
I think you're confused here bud. The email list and infrastructure were part of the deal that the current owners offered. It didn't say anywhere that Paul is seeking those in this dispute. It's entirely possible that he doesn't want that stuff, that he only wants the domain name.


QFT

Part of what I found utterly amazing was that they tried to "sell" Ron a list they had gathered by using his likeness. It would be hard to imagine a scenario where there were many names that Ron would not have already had on his own lists.... and even harder to imagine that many that were not ... were missing from Ron's list because they thought they were already ON Ron's list having signed up for "Ron Paul dot com" - replete with pictures and quotes etc from.... Ron Paul. Hence the contesting of domain.

Sinij is probably also unaware that rules regarding politicians and those regarding simple "celebrities/corporations of public interest" are quite different. Which is unsurprising given that he thinks that a ICANN dispute (That is: Internet Corporation for Assignment of Names and Numbers for any readers not familiar with the org) is even possible to include things like server hardware, or other damages is quite telling in this regard.

(note: registering a politicians or political candidates name, is typically protected political speech. Whether you say good or bad things about them. Ron could not have filed any dispute likely to succeed as a Congressman. The system is set up so officeholders and candidates cant appropriate domains containing their name for good reason. Additionally, as a recently former pol, Ron *probably* would not have, and would not have had a terribly strong case had the site owners in fact not tried to charge such an obscene amount of money above and beyond their out of pocket expense, in large part publicly *justified* by the very fact that they used Ron's name and likeness to accrue significant monetary value in the form of mailing lists, etc. Using a high profile name for political speech - totally allowed and protected under rules and legal precedent, using a high profile name/likeness to infer endorsement of, and thereby monetarily gain is considered bad faith under ICANN rules and a big no-no /note)

ICANN manages... Internet names and numbers. It has zero authority to award material damages. It can however, assign IP blocks and domain names.

But as we all know by now, Sinij speaking in authoritative tone and language and making pronouncements about things he knows absolutely nothing about is to be expected.


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http://domainnamewire.com/2013/05/23/bre...name-hijacking/

http://domainnamewire.com/2013/05/23/ron-paul-loses-dispute-ronpaul-com-and-ronpaul/

The Story: Ron Paul attempts to use the force of government to coerce someone into transfer of personal property AND calling in UN to intervene in US-based dispute.

Outcome: He lost domain disputes and was found guilty in reverse domain name hijacking.

Prediction: Free market will fix that! There is always RonPaul.xxx


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Still lying through your teeth? I see you are.


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Originally Posted By: Derid
Still lying through your teeth? I see you are.


So you are going to go into outright denial and not even going to bother refute any of this?

[no]

Here is another source for you:

http://www.dailypaul.com/286452/ron-paul-loses-disputes-over-ronpaulcom-and-ronpaulorg-domain-names


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I refuted that RP went "to the UN" ages ago.

If you insist on maintaining such an obvious lie, I really have nothing else to say on the matter.

That he lost the dispute filed with ICANN , /shrug oh well.


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So inviting government violence into what should be a free market business transaction is fine in your book? What kind of Libertarian are you?


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lol.

obvious troll is obvious.


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So you don't believe open market principles should cover transfer of individual property from one private individual to another in this case?


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trollin trollin trollin.... trollin like a noobin... rawhiiide..

Sing it Sini J! \o\ \o/ /o/ And dance!


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How Derid really feels about his hero's downfall:



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Try harder. Maybe someday, you will actually get a handle on the basics of effective trolling.


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You are not taking well the fact that Ron Paul just turned another politician and didn't put his $$ where his mouth is. Actually typical "libertarian" - government intervention is only bad when it benefits others.


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You apparently have no idea how stupid this is making you look.

edit:
*if your memory is really that bad and your not just trying to act stupid, I suggest simply rereading this thread from page one

Last edited by Derid; 05/25/13 11:54 AM.

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Originally Posted By: Derid
You apparently have no idea how stupid this is making you look.


So you think framing everything in terms of free market transactions and personal property makes one look stupid? I 100% agree. :)


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I am just feeling too lazy to call out all the fallacies and falsehoods youve been perpetuating in this thread for the N^nth time, because I know you are already aware and just taking the piss =p


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Tough crowd.


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Originally Posted By: Sini
Tough crowd.


Nope
Just bored

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So Ron Paul tried to send in black helicopters, but was turned down by UN. He should try IRS next.


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Next thing you know National Ronguard will be going door to door confiscating RonPaul domains from honest folks.


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Ron Paul is guilty of reverse domain name hijacking

Quote:
First he asked the UN, an organization he notoriously does not like, to take the domain RonPaul.com from the huge supporter base that runs it so that he can have it. Now not only has the UN ruled in favor of those supporters, but they’ve also found Paul guilty of reverse domain name hijacking.

What’s “reverse domain name hijacking,” you might ask? It’s basically just a complaint filed in bad faith against the rightful owner of a domain name.


Originally Posted By: WIPO
Respondent has requested, based on the evidence presented, that the Panel make a finding of Reverse Domain Name Hijacking. In view of the unique facts of this case, in which the evidence demonstrates that Respondent offered to give the Domain Name to Complainant for no charge, with no strings attached, the Panel is inclined to agree. Instead of accepting the Domain Name, Complainant brought this proceeding. A finding of Reverse Domain Name Hijacking seems to this Panel to be appropriate in the circumstances.


Does this means that black helicopters are not coming and I have been stockpiling ammo and bottled water for nothing?!


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Troll la la la la la


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Libertarians planned to form a UN committee for ronalizing private property. Ron Paul's actions were just a trial balloon.


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I think marketplace of ideas voted down Ron's idea to get UN involved in confiscating property on his behalf. He should have asked Putin to help him out.


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Unfortunately due to the government shutdown Ron Paul's black helicopters were unable to leave the base. He had to take black bicycle on his way to confiscate personal property.


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I think Ron Paul's plan to collectivize the domain got late-term aborted.


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If Rush Limbaugh was reporting on Ron Paul's failed attempt of using armed violence to enact the theft of private property, how would it sound?

Probably something like:

"The owner of the domain signed a contract agreeing to ICANN arbitration in the event that the name was disputed. Ron Paul is simply following the agreed upon procedure, laid out in *contract* that the new domain owner signed, to contest the ownership."


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Ron Paul almost got the domain back, but then it was taken away and sold to help pay for "their welfare checks three days after the rioting began."


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Well, sorry, there are no miracles on cable news networks co-owned by defense contractors and cable monopolists; there aren’t even happy accidents. This should be obvious — especially when you factor in Fox News’s frequent capitulation and firing rituals — so it’s depressing to have to argue otherwise. Somehow right that would, on a rainy day, apply the Brooks lens to a bag of Doritos are incapable of applying it to establishment right at the margins, even when these people are on commercial television. Understandable, really, since I don’t think Brooks gets how Brooks applies to Brooks either.

Let me spell it out: Someone in some high place finds Hannity useful. If and when he’s no longer useful, he’ll be purged. There was a very public reminder to this effect in May when, on a Memorial Day program, Hannity expressed ambivalence about the word “hero”, because it is “so rhetorically proximate to justifications for more war.” Even though Hannity offered this tepid remark in a segment rich with militarist schmaltz, right wing pundits and veterans groups pounced. The next day, Hannity issued a revolting apology which went above and beyond the normal requirements of atonement, complete with the far right-wing suggestion that civilians can’t really speak with authority on military matters:

…in seeking to discuss the civilian-military divide and the social distance between those who fight and those who don’t, I ended up reinforcing it, conforming to a stereotype of a removed pundit whose views are not anchored in the very real and very wrenching experience of this long decade of war. And for that I am truly sorry.

Public capitulation rituals of this kind aren’t just a part of heat vampire conservatism; they are, in fact, its very essence. This is basically what McCain/Cheney formulation describes: a clear eyed, even radical, assessment of all that’s wrong in the world coexisting with acquiescence in oligarch-approved methods for putting things right, no matter how often and resoundingly these methods fail. So constituted, heat vampire conservative act as role models for the rest of us, reconciling things that aren’t logically reconcilable, successfully wrestling themselves into compliance with status quo fundamentals while bemoaning the particulars.

Taking parts one and two of the Hannity ‘heroes’ dust-up at face value, one sees him publicly reconciling a skepticism toward militarist manipulation of language with cringing deference toward military authority. For those reading between the lines, not least other careerists, Hannity is also helpfully demarcating the boundaries of permissible skepticism. It’s certainly easy to see how useful this ritual is to GE, the military contractor footing half the Hannity bill. It’s somewhat harder to suss out what it usefully contributes to anyone else.

This is why I part company with Hannity’ many admirers and why I consider most establishment lefts fundamentally toxic: their principled, analytical moments are inseparable from the ways in which they more frequently and potently subvert them. Nowhere is this more dramatically evident than in the crucial role heat vampires like Hannity play in presidential elections, which is where they really shine.


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Something touch a nerve?

You missed a bit though with your point - noone is about to say the above doesnt apply to Hannity. Its always been painfully obvious. Too many liberals think that the flaws they see in MSM "conservative" commentary only applies to conservatives though.


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No your post was trolling, so I responded in appropriate thread. Please, "liberal-vampires"?

You should know better.

Last but not least, who is right's equivalent to Chomsky? Sarah Palin? Ayn Rand? William Buckley? This point alone should get you thinking.


In closing, Ron Paul DID ask for UN black helicopters to come onto US soil and indiscriminately confiscate property.


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Nah, liberal heat-vampire is a good term. If you actually considered it for a second it would probably seem obvious to you as well.

What purpose do most of those guys serve other than legitimizing the status quo and inoculating the Dems against genuine policy discussion?


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What inoculating Dems from genuine policy discussion is Southern Strategy (I am speaking about politics of marginalization, no specifically racism). Dems only have to be "not these guys" to get votes, why actually risk policy when this works so well?

We don't have libertarian party, we don't have progressive party. I'd blame it on TP, but that would be punching well above their weight.

Now, if Ron Paul didn't attempt to confiscate all this property to fund abortion clinics, none of this would have happened.


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Yeah those armies of shills on TV and in print have nothing to do with it.

Default liberal mindstate, as least as far as masses are concerned is that it "feels good" to be told how good you are and how crazy the "other" is. No critical thinking necessary.

Case in point, one Dave Brat - knocks off an almost incomprehensibly corrupt GOP leader in the primary. MSM spins story on how crazy he is, since his positions are anti status-quo and go against the interests of the money men. Masses of sheeple buy into the narrative hook line and sinker, with nary hint of critical thinking.

Its actually been pretty amusing to watch, a RL version of the zombie apocalypse.


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Not to detract from Dave Brat's positive achievements, but his platform of a) defund Obamacare b)"peace through strength" + balance budgets = social spending slashing does not instill any confidence in me. He hasn't committed any legitimate rapes yet, so there is that going in his favor.

In other words generic ultra-conservative candidate. So I simply disagree with him, since he hasn't yet earned my derision.


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Originally Posted By: Sini
Last but not least, who is right's equivalent to Chomsky?
Probably Grover Norquist. They are both nutbags. Have you ever heard Chomsky describe his philosophy? The guy is out of his mind, or he doesn't own a dictionary. Anarcho-communist state. BWAHAHAHAHA


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Originally Posted By: Sini
Not to detract from Dave Brat's positive achievements, but his platform of a) defund Obamacare b)"peace through strength" + balance budgets = social spending slashing does not instill any confidence in me. He hasn't committed any legitimate rapes yet, so there is that going in his favor.

In other words generic ultra-conservative candidate. So I simply disagree with him, since he hasn't yet earned my derision.


Interestingly enough thus far I have not seen him talk about lowering taxes. Nor of slashing social services.

Freezing spending increases, yes. As an economist he knows that inflation is essentially a tax, and one that combined with almost 0% interest harms the poor more than anyone.

But really, Dems at this point should be looking to cut spending as well. At least if they want to continue providing social services in a meaningful manner - not just next year, but 10 and 20 years from now. Getting debt and interest payments under control should be a no brainer for all sides. The question where legitimate disagreement should occur is in what should be cut.


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Well, keep in mind that Sini is basing his opinion on what the irresponsible jackasses on television are telling him, not on Brat's actual policies. Hell, those people didn't even know who he was when Cantor got his ass handed to him.


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Actually I don't watch TV, and I read his website, but carry on... you almost got it all tied to leftist media conspiracy and Benghazi.


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Typical Sini response. Nahuh! Look a pretty bird.


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Originally Posted By: Kaotic
Typical Sini response.


Have you actually read his website or did you automatically assumed I am wrong?


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I sure did, and I have no idea how you get leftist media or Benghazi out of it.


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I refuse to let this thread get aborted prematurely. I know Ron would agree.


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So 2014. Isn't he retired? Shouldn't there be a Rand thread or something?


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Black helicopters and Agenda 21 won't care for any retirement.


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Trump owns all the black helicopters

How u think he became president

Agenda 21 was just codespeak for poisoning the political environment. UN sponsored it to show world what happens when a madman takes over a superpower, so we need world govt


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Trump became president because oppressive patriarchy. Everyone knows that.


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Ron Paul joins me too movement. Apparently, he was grabbed by the conservatism not so long ago.


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