What is our status with Andruk? And what is going on with the alliance? I am under the impression we are in some kind of probabtion right now with the alliance. Is that correct? And why aren't they improving the city. I'm off an on lately with the holidays, so I might be missing out on some of the stuff. Just curious.

The city is being improved and we are full members of the DA alliance, although there is a difficult situation with LOD right now that we are dealing with.

I expect to see the first guard tower up in the next 72 hours.

For now, DA and Andruk are our home.

Double post FTL

Guard tower ftw!

*edit*
but I must say when KGB owns a city we build shit better and faster then MC does!

I agree with you Thomas

Yeah, but like Jet said sometime ago, the best thing to KGB overall right now, its not to own a city, and focus on toon development and group development. No excuses this time! :p

The best thing is dont care about LD or whatever guild think of KGB and do our own thing...

Like own an whole island, that IMHO is more important than a Keep.

I ask because I also hear not to contribute to city imporivement. I have a ton of mats with two alts farming away and I can focus on stone if need be.

Well I would say, donate lightly....
Maybe 1/4 of your mats

We've been distracted ALOT lately, what with the ships, keep and the various other building projects we've been associated with - which is not a problem because those things are fun, but we need to buckle down.

I feel our character development is hurting, especially since a lot of people have to farm the money just to level up skills, compounded with the fact that they lose sets of gear that needs to be replaced whenever we go on these "fun" expiditions - equals a loss of characters.

We really need to buckle down, because there's always something to build. What happens if the alliance takes a new city? Will we accept andruk? How can we reject MC outright? A lot of KGB members have given a lot of keys and stored up money for the keep, money they could of spent leveling up skills. If we accept a city, I have no doubt, KGB members will give the rest of their banks to fund the city - something that will destroy any hopes that we'll get our characters up for pvp viability.

Not to mention the fact that, just by looking at PVE groups, our coordination is not even CLOSE to the point where i'm comfrotable we can compete with the best.

I hate to sound so negative once again, but it takes a LONG time to level up magic - if you're going that route. (And lets not forget the gold. Also, some people don't have a lot of time to play AND they don't macro, so they have to be efficent with their time) So a long time of uninterrupted skilling up is a plus for our members, the occational guild activity doesn't hurt to build group cohesion, but it shouldn't be at the cost of go-bags every time. (When we die) Doesn't matter for me, but in vent, people say they only have 300 gold, so it matters for them.

The guard towers should help us a BUNCH, though - considering we've been fending off people 24/7 lately.

Look, I hate to say it, because i'm preety sure 99% of people in KGB hate my negativity all tht time and tune me out ...

But I don't play this game to make friends. I don't play this game for PvE. I play this game for one reason, and one reason only. PvP. Organization. Field battle. And between the kracken trips, farming for the keep, discovering new spawns, considering building a city, and now our newest distraction, building KGB island - it seems like we're dedicating zero time to PvP.

This isn't wow. Building our character is not enough. You know how many Dominion players had magic fully leveled up? I'd say one or two groups full. But, lets bet honest, THEY SUCKED DICK coordination wise. Too hectic. This is what I want to drill into people's head, even with a good character, you can still suck.

It just seems that it's only a matter of time before MC moves out and we're going to take Andruk. What are we going to do? Say no? There's no one else with the members or the dedication to fund and build andruk. KGB's the ONLY option in the alliance. There's no way we say no and risk losing our new friends.

PVP takes practice. You don't get elite in one day, and if we want to hold hands and be friends all the time, and never get serious - we'll never have that elite, coordinated pvp group that I joined KGB to play with.

Stop. Stop stop stop. Stop making excuses for not building your characters.

I'm so sick of hearing it. All you have to do is make 1.5-2k a day if you want to macro the entire night. That's less than one hour of mob grinding.

That's enough gold to buy the regs to macro all night long. I do it every single day. Or, just go out for 4-5 hours on the weekend and stock up for the entire week of macroing. Hell, you may even get a key as a bonus, which isn't factored in to hourly gold rates.

Character development is not limited by money, at all. Newbie staffs are essentially free, as are r1 swords/etc.

Don't get me wrong Kay, I do not have ANY problem building up my character. But the majority of our member base DOES NOT macro, invest in their characters all the time, or has a sense of urgency to it all. If all I cared about was myself, I would shut up, becuase i'm close to becoming at level a little pvp viable. I don't need any help or more time.

However, I'm talking about the guild as a whole, becuase you can't pvp alone.

And if it's so damn easy for everyone, how come people keep complaining in vent about money and not being able to level up skills? How come, when in PvE groups, only one or two people have witche's brew? Then die because they don't heal up fast enough?

It's not that they suck, it's that they have one track minds. They want to help the guild so much, they'll stop everything their doing to help the guild. If we're saving for the guild keep, they stop EVERYTHING they are doing and give to the guild. If we're going ton a ship battle, they stop EVERYTHING and stock up for the battle.

If we build a city, they will stop EVERYTHING and put all their money, time and effort into building the city. (mining stone and what not).

You know it's true. Just look at the posts above.

Because they waste their time. They make scale suits, and banded suits, and they farm rocks, and they chop wood, and they mine iron.

There's no need. It's a waste of time. You don't need studded armor, you don't need banded armor, you don't need scale armor. Stop sinking your resources. The only time you should be harvesting is with an alt. All time spent on your main character should be grinding. If you're not clicking, you're not leveling.

All you need is bone sets, mounts, regs, and r40 weapons and r40 bows. It barely takes anything to make a couple r40 weapons, so you hardly have to mine at all.

The only thing I buy is regs. Period. End of story. I spend money on NOTHING but regs. (and r40s if i run out)

As a noob to the game, I've been confused. Maybe we should create a guide or something. I know I'm not the only noob in the clan, so I am sure I won't be the only one benifiting from a clan guide. In the beginning, I was informed the only effective way to raise attributes rapidly was to farm. So I farmed my way up to the 30s over a few weeks and swam when I could. I can't say I enjoyed myself while farming, but whatever it takes, eh. lol. I've been kicked twice for unattending swimming, so I have a fear now of too much unattended macroing. Recently it seems that farming isn't as fast as I was told and that I can raise stats faster by just clicking on the blood wall. And with a simple macro, I just point and let the macro do my clicking to save on my finger tendons. lol. I break up the monotony by PvE for gold.

No, I am not close to witches brew. I've just now gotten my GM to 50. I'm not sure what I should be doing now. (a guide here would be nice), but I'll be asking in vent tonight, or I'll see the answer in a post or two. Tonight I'll just be swinging my sword on the bloodwall gaining stats and getting mastery and maybe get 40 Strength.

As far as the alliance, I don't care one way or the other. I was just unsure what we were doing. I'll go where KGB goes and play when I can play.

Trust me, I want the shortest route to viability. I'm not too fond of my pussy status. I have to add that as a clan noob I want to help with what our focus is. But my focus is diverted on our priorities because I'm not sure what they are. Skills, city building, keep, island, etc.. Right now I would say SKILLS, SKILL, SKILLS is the message. I'm OK with that. I just have to balance my gaming with my wife aggro. For some reason she wants me to cook dinner and eat it with her while we watch Law and Order. I tell her there is soup in the cupboard and L&O will play without my presence, but she doesn't listen to me.

Well let me address some of the issues here.

1) MC and Andruk.
MC has maybe 10 actives at most, and dont have any business owning a city. The chances of us being asked to own Andruk are slim to none. If MC cant gain strength, then when KGB is skilled up and ready for property ownership, we would look to another property probably. Who knows.

As I have said, until KGB can field three skilled and highly organized groups, we have no business owning anything. I will not sanction ownership until KGB can produce the forces to defend it.

2) Character Development
This should be your priority. Speak to those with advanced characters and simply put, do what they do. Your number 1 priority should be getting you character viable in PVP.

3) KGB island
The KGB island project is an un-official attempt to control a village point where KGBers can macro safely and we can launch ships, etc. This is something that can never be taken from us, so as a consolation prize to a keep, it is the next best thing. Participants are on a volunteer basis, and everyone should be continuing to focus on their character development only.

There's a lot on the forums currently on character development, but I have to agree Squared, it can be confusing. I would look on the character template sticky for the main template ... as for a guide, i'll whip something up tonight so the newer players can get the jist. Just a matter of combining current posts so it shouldn't be news to most people.

Who says you are all negative.
Thanks Syloc.

Oh yeah, I was looking at the Character Template, also known as the Charater Template post, but that was pre-expac. Is it still viable as a source of info?

The Character Template is still solid, however, Volcano and Wall of fire is now on the same cooldown, so only level one. (Someone correct me if i'm wrong, I'm not totally familar with the cooldowns)

If you have all those skills, you should be good to go; but it doesn't go that indepth and it doens't prioritize which ones to get first.

However if you have everything on that list, you can't go wrong.

Note to self: I play to have fun. I macro...very rarely.

The template is an uber char...If I need to meet those requirement to have fun, something is wrong.

Luckily a lot of peeps in KGB understand that and still allow me to have fun with them.

This exact question came up in Vent last night from RocknRolla. Donk, Kaotic, Kay, and a couple others were in the channel. The general consensus that came out of the conversation was that the start of PvP viability begins in BASIC with something like this.

Starter Template

Any 1-Handed Weapon skill > 75
Any 2-Handed Weapon skill > 75
Parry Skill > 50
Archery Skill > 50
Lesser Magic > 50
Greater Magic > 50
Witchcraft > 75
Any 1 Elemental school > 50

Spells you should have: Heal Self, Heal Other, Witch's Brew, Sacrifice, Mana to Stam, Stam to Health, 1 Lvl 50 Elemental AoE

Anything beyond this is flavor to your play style. This is just a general guideline to get you to be able to really help in PvP situations even if your not the DPS monster in the group. Being able to cross heal and support those with higher level in game weapon/magic skills is just as important as actually being the person dropping the Magic/Melee bomb's.

Well balanced, well designed, support role build's are just as important as those who charged up the Elemental magic's to get all the AoE dmg spells and are doing all the monster magic dps.

**EDIT**

Kay is spot on about leveling up your toons skills. You can hunt hobgoblins north of andruk, get all the R40 Bows, R40 1HD Sword, R30 1HD Clubs, R20 1HD Axe's, and Shields, you could ever want. In an hours time with a minimum group of three, you can easily farm 1-2k gold for each of you doing only melee and archery to kill the mobs. Bingo, your set for the night for regs and your building your cache of weapons. The only reason you could have for not building your toon is not having the time to actually do it if you don't want too or can't macro afk.

If you have fun, I don't care. What I do care about is people who complain about dying, or not being competitive, but then do nothing to change it.

Sorry folks, this is Darkfall. It requires massive time. If you can't have fun having a low-end character, then get out while you can. If it doesn't bother you, then carry on.

Kay,

Said in a pretty rough manner, but true. If you want to be 'good' you MUST work hard at it. If you want to contribute to a fun bunch of people and have fun (sucking at PVP) my technique is pretty effective.

I'm seriously consider making Leeboi a tank that has maxed out magic resist. His main tactic would be to charge a group of spell caster to give our side time to nuke them while I 'confuse' them.

I can go mage killer in both melee and archer and pop rage as I charge the enemy. They will most likely focus on me for a few seconds 10-15. In that time our main PVPers would have time to drop a few nukes on them and me. Bone armor is cheap

If we win the fight I can be ressed, if not I would of died anyways.

Any ideas on this strategy? I want to useful in PVP.

Although it's great to have Melee skills raised, it's honestly something you should NOT concentrate on until you have your magics up, especially if you're doing this build.

In my opinion, the order you should do this in is ...

From top to bottom

Conversions (Basically LM to 50. Do NOT waste regs leveling up conversion spells, it'll level itself cause you'll use it all the time.)
Witchcraft to 75 for Witche's Brew (Again, don't not level it up, it'll level itself)
Elemental School:

I would suggest ...

Fire -> Impetus (1 Mandrake) or Firebolt (2 Sulfer) to 50 then Fireball - 50 max dmg - (1 Nacre + 1 Sulfer)
Air -> Guiding wind (1 Sulfer) or Ball Lightning (2 Mandrake) to 50 then Lightning Strike - 50 max dmg - (1 Mandrake + 1 Sulfer)

Others, Unknown
Water (No Common Area DMG Spell)
Earth -> Acid Arrow (2 Resin) or Brawn (1 Ash + 1 Resin) to 50 then Corrosive Blast (1 Nacre + 1 Resin)
Necro (No Common Area DMG spell)
Arcnae -> Mystic Shield (1 Mandrake) or Hasten Spells (1 Mandrake + 1 Nacre) or Sacred Missile (2 Ashes) to 60 then Flames of Vengeance (2 Ash + 1 Sulfer)

**

The reason I would go Fire or Air first before the others is because of the other spells. Fire Ward, Stormblast and Come Hither are active PVP skills. In my opinion, level you're ACTIVE skills first BEFORE you're passive skills. (Like Stone Skin). Also, the common theme these days is cycling Lightning Strike and Fireball. The reason you level you're Damage Area spells, is that they are easier to aim for the new player.

Other people can comment on the effectivness of the other schools. I just see them for their other effects (Utility, Buffs, etc ...) Don't waste you're time on Damage Other spells (the ones where the range is small). The argument that, "You can hit horses running away" is a "nice" thing to have, but only if you have nothing else to level.

1) Concentrate on you're goal. Don't be a newb and level 5 schools at once. Get one elemental school up so you're effective.
2) Don't waste you're time leveling all the spells in the school. Some are fun, but useless.
3) Concentrate on leveling up your Area Damge spells (Like Fireball and Lightning Strike) up first before others, mainly because you'll be using them the most.

Weaponskills - Level this up as you go to mob spawns. Do NOT setup a parrybot as the first thing you do, setup a macro for your school spells. The reason is simple. You do NOT have the hp to compete with EU players. You can always level up your weapon skills as you farm. With the introduction of the disabling blow (the one that disables parry) DON'T parrybot unless you have no money for regs to macro. Same with Archery, level as you farm.

Other NECESSARY Spells - when leveling GM, get Heal other. It's great for crosshealing, and as we get better, should be done on the fly with teammates. Calling out Witch's brew and heal other can get teammates back up to full in no time.

In my opinion, there's no viable support build. Nor is there any viable archer only build. Don't get me wrong, you should level up all the support, buffs and utility spells - but only AFTER you level your main damage spells.

Also, i'm not saying melee is useless - but you ALWAYS level up your range stuff first or else you'll be useless until we get close. Melee will come eventually but without any range, you can't do shit.

In review, my list would be ...

Starter Template (In order of importance)

Converstions (Lesser Magic) - You can use this in heavy armor and should use it ALL THE TIME NOT JUST WHEN YOU ARE LOW.
Damage Spells (Fireball, Lightning Bolt)
Archery (While Farming)
Melee (While Farming) - LeveL your 2 hander before your 1 hander because 1 hander only used for mount fights.

You have to max out your melee schools and MAX out your conversions. The tactic for heavy melee is NOT suicide imho. It's rushing the casters, spamming conversions, and dodging with double jump. Depending on you're playstyle (Axe for Heavy damage, Polearm for reach, and Sword for Quick DPS)

Mind you leeboi, this isn't a cheap way to go. You'll be spending LOTS and LOTS of gold. If you intend on going this route, I suggest pairing up with magic user in the guild and DUEL DUEL DUEL. Don't depend on "i'll learn as we go." because it takes repetition to get better at pvp.

And not, "Stroke my epeen" duel - but a mutual duel. Experiment a little. Archer vs melee. Fireball vs Melee. etc etc ...

Don't just be suicidal. Practice kiting round corners while spamming conversions then turning around and heading back into the fight. Practice blocking spells then switching to your 2hander right before you get up to the enemy.

Be flexible.

The reason some people say, "as long as i'm having fun" is because they've never experienced success in pvp yet - they don't want to get too down. It's not that hard. Practice makes perfect. That's what the guild is for.

There's nothing wrong with losing. Just try not to make the same mistake twice.

1k to 2k gold in an hour or two of mob grinding with a "small" group is super easy. Take that money and buy regs and find a place that you can macro without being killed. Or watch your toon as best you can. Don't pack on 1000 regs to macro... do short bursts like 300 to 400 until you get the hang of it.

#1 priority in my opinion... gotta work that magic up.

DAMN MAGEFALL..lol.

Syloc, noob question incoming..what do you mean by conversion spells..stam to health? I just realized I have not heard that before.

Leeboi, as much as it pains me, I have to agree with them. I am or have been pure melee to this point and bluntly put, am no more than an annoyance to enemies in PvP. Oh sure, on occasion I am lucky, but mostly I am the first down and out..EU players are very good, very quick to gank and take you completely out of the fight and simply put, maxxed weapons and archery are only so good..if you wear better armor for protection, you lose your ability to even be viable with archery.

Stam to health, Mana to stam and Health to mana.
Mandatory spells to have.

Syloc,
I would disagree with the point about support characters. The best healer we have ran across is the Red Armies Kitty who was a buffer and healer and did a fantastic job at getting players back in the fray.

I thought Donk had made a post about her healing but maybe it was just chatted up in vent.

If you go to YouTube and watch the videos, you'll find that EVERYONE should be cross healing, not just one person.

I think the trap is that people are still thinking in terms of classes.

If you see someone low, use heal other, and do it on the fly. I don't see any reason you can't do both.

By saying you are going support, is telling me you are leveling your buffs before your damage spells. Don't. In the end the choice is yours, but I would rather have a teammate who knows how to fight and crossheal rather than a guy with only buffs. What are you going to do in the middle of battle? Is there any reason you can't do both?

Why i say this is that while that Kitty person may have done a great job, you'll see in battles that it's easier for a well equiped group to get a teammate back in the fray.

Look at it this way. If everyone has witches brew and heal other, if we are down, we'll call in vent "Get together for witches brew, 3 2 1." Boom, 4 players, all witches brew, all stacked. Everyone's back to full health." Why have one person have gimp skills because they consider themselves "support"?

*

I have to disagree with earlier, I wasn't saying that tank isn't viable ... because I think it is. I have just died to too many plate users to say that heavy armor rushers are useless. You just have to be smart with them. Stay with the group. Choose your spots. Don't just rush every time, then complain that no one's with you when you die. Think. Play smart.

With the amount of resists on plate, it's reasonable to expect someone with pots and conversion spells can last a long time. (Conversion spells, like someone said, are conversion mana to stam, health to mana, etc ... ) We just have to test them out in duels and 2v2s.

After reading some of Syloc's post, the informative ones about building a minimum PVP toon, I have went and gotten Fire Magic and Fire Bolt.

I do know that magic is key to PVP in DFO mostly. Since I have LM and GM up to were it needs, I was able to get fire bolt and will level it to get Fire Ball.

I recommend that Syloc/Kay make a stick post about minimum PVP toons. Don't just say 100 in all melee and 100GM in all magic trees....that is very daunting. Syloc make a good point about no real need for melee skill in PVP (it is generally true). If your write it, explain the rational on the build and how to level efficiently.

P.S. Casting Fire Bolts looks like I'm spitting at the target

Well don't get me wrong. YOU NEED MELEE. Eventually all battles go to melee eventually.

I was just saying that, if you're leveling up skills, you should concentrate on magic first and melee just all the time generally when you farm and shit.

I only say this because if you only train melee first, you'll be useless at range.

But melee is REALLY important.

Can't go wrong with what your doing though, just train melee as you get up there in groups.

write it up hos'; help noob not be lame and cannon fodder

yeah, lots of good info here guys. what happened to the mage killer? is that a dead end class since it kills your elemental magic?

Look, there's no one that wanted Magekiller to work more than me - but it doesn't.

The only way way magekiller would work is if it has damage that's high enough to justify losing magery; which is signicantly more effective at range.

Magekiller is currently +20% to staff users, removing all elemental, necro and arcane.

I don't care what anyone says, archery CAN keep up with mage damage - but ONLY at short range.

Think about it this way, bow damage increases significantly with higher ranking bows, but magery does NOT increase more than a couple of points with high ranking bows. So, if you were to gear up your player, you could out dps a mage at short range.

The cavat, however, is that ONLY at short range. At medium to long, along with the slow pace of the arrow, (along with the arc) your chances of hitting decrease significantly. Also, magery with the AOEs is a lot more effective in sieges than arrows, which can only hit one target at a time which, as long as they straft fast enough, can dodge your shots.

If you ever go magekiller (unless you think Witchcraft, GM, LM has good nuke spells) you're losing that long range capabilities and your only good if you have good aim, it's not as easy as fireball.

This move would ONLY be justified if you have a crapton more damage as an archer, so single target killing is something people can be afraid of -

- unfortunatly, 20% of staff users is absolute crap. It's not a big enough increase to give up elements AND added to that fact, you can't even get jump shot AND aquatic shot at the same time.

**

If they allowed you to have ALL the archerys specs at the same time, that would be another story. You could jump shot to kite, have a longer ID range and acquatic shot ... but even then, the switch is still debatable.

**

Right now, if you want to get more damage with archery, spend some rare ores and get a better bow - not only will you get more damage than magekiller, it will be applied to everyone. Plus, you NEED acquatic shot, especially since we are one of the few guilds that has a substainal supply of boats.

**

Aim, too, is NOT only about hitting the target every single time - it's about dodging AND hitting the target every single time. So just because you can hit mobs and can kill in groups when the targets are looking at you, doesn't mean you have good aim, because when you face smaller battles and have to play a larger role in the battle, you'll get wiped because you're used to stationary targets.

**

Overall, it's a tossup.

Magekiller does provide a damage boost but costs you acquatic shot, which is a huge deal, because if you don't have acquatic shot, all I have to do is go in the water and you're screwed.

Only thing I can think of with mage killer is using the blindness spell at high rank Greater Magic. Open up with that and keep them in the dark the whole fight... put 3 arrows into them... re cast blindess, 3 arrows, etc

Mage killer is bad.
But, with full plate or better, a beefy toon and player skill it rapes people. See the Evaner Mordred video to check that : http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=228053