http://news.yahoo.com/military-pensions-too-generous-073743707.html

So the Government thinks military pensions are to high. I'm going to say FUCK THEM IN THE GODDAMN FACE. If we cut anyone's pensions FIRST, it should be our elected officials. They aren't the ones coming back with post tramatic issues, disabilities... or if they get to come back home at all.

Hey you dipshit politicisations, leave education, healthcare, & SSI/disability/retirement alone & tax the rich fairly!!!

Is this supposed to be sarcasm? You do know that the "rich" pay the vast majority of the taxes in this country right? The top 5% of tax payers pay 50% of all taxes, and nearly 50% of the people in this country pay NO taxes. How much more should the "rich" be required to pay before you decide that its fair? By your logic you should have no problem with me coming to your house and taking 50% of your stuff to give to someone who "needs" it, right? For fuck's sake, get your head out of your ass before you begin typing.

/set rant to simmer

In regard to the actual topic of the thread, it is completely unconscionable that they would even consider something like this. Those men and women have risked their lives for our freedoms and as long as the politicians are living high on the hog and we're giving money to every Tom, Dick and Harry with their hand out, we must continue to support our troops monetarily. When they have cut out all the other bullshit, if there is still a need, then and only then can they look to do anything to military pay, other than increase it. For the time being, if they're not considering raises for military servicemen and women, then they need to leave it alone. Which I believe they will. In all likelihood, much like many of the other things they've done, this is simply a scare tactic and an underhanded attempt to effect votes. And they didn't even have to make an announcement. All they had to do was leak the idea of a study...

If you want a fair tax, then you need to write you congressman telling them that's you want one. We need a NEW tax system PERIOD! Whether it's totally a consumer based Tax or a flat tax. Either way, the system we have now is seriously flawed. I think if we had a national flat tax of 2% along with a consumer based tax at 15% and NO federal income tax, getting rid of the I.R.S. that would be as close to fair as you can get. If you have a flat tax of 15% for everyone, the more money you make the more taxes you would pay. Lets face it, taxing 15% on $50,000 is chump change when you tax %5 million at 15%. That's $7,500 tax on (50K) compared to $750,000 ($5millon). But the biggest issue isn't really the revenue of taxes, it's the SPENDING that is the problem. If you have to rob peter to pay paul, then you have some serious financial issues. In which SPENDING is the problem. Sure it would be a DREAM to have everyone make $100K a year, and have healthcare, free education and all the entitlements you want. But, this is nothing but a dream. You can have programs that help people for a limited time, but not for a goddamn lifetime. Like Welfare, there are a lot of people on welfare that are able to work, but they are just to fucking lazy.

I think SSI/Disability is something that is needed for the people that are truely disabled and cannot work in a regular work enviroment. There are flaws in that system as well. People say they are disabled and have fooled the system in labeling them as disabled when they really are not. I have a worthless piece of shit cousin that fits this mold. He's as abled bodied as anyone I've ever met, Yet he's drawing SSI. I have no idea how he convinced them to give him SSI. I don't think being a dumbass qualifies you for SSI. I think you need to have some issues, his issues are that he is simply being a lazy fucker, that is a dumbass. People like him should just take a walk into oncoming traffic.

Ok back on track... You want to know why companies are going overseas? Because it's cheaper labor, cheaper taxes which leads to more profit. In turn leads to making the company bigger, hiring more people. Since it's cheaper to do it overseas, guess who gets hired? YES, the people overseas. I know this stuff is rocket science. And it takes a lot of critical thinking figuring out why we have over 9% unemployment and has been that way much of the last 3 years. Bottom line, if you keep taking more and more profit away from companies, they will simply go somewhere and make their product where they can profit from it. When you have a company, you don't say, well I've made a million dollars this year. I think I'll just stay just the way it is because I don't want to make anymore money than that. You can never stand pat as a company, the way you grow is to innovate and create better more efficient processes for your product to work at the cheapest cost. If companies didn't do that and always strive for that, then NONE of them would last very long.
Here is a breakdown of who pays the indivdual income tax, within a year.
The top 1% of earners in the U.S. paid nearly 39% of the taxes in 2010. At a tax rate of a little over 23%.
Top 5% paid 58% tax
Top 10% paid 69% tax
Top 25% paid 83% tax
Top 50% paid 97% bottom of the top 50% was a little over $33,000/year.
Bottom 50% paid 3% If you make less than $33k/year you would pay virtually no taxes.
http://www.taxfoundation.org/research/show/250.html#Data

I dont like consumer based tax, in just a tentative examination I came up with myriad ways to get around and abuse the system. It would also end up an even bigger invitation to greatly expanded bureaucracy trying to make and keep it "fair" and put an enormous burden on businesses, especially small business.

Good intent, impossible to execute.

Wow man, what's up you @$$? Do you live in this country, it is a well known fact that the rich & corporations get tax cuts & use loopholes in the tax system. Did you watch the news when the "debt ceiling craziness" was going on?

Making more then double the average household income, I personally feel like I pay enough in Federal Taxes.

Unfortunately I am on the low end of the 2nd tax tier so if they did change to a tiered flat tax code, I probably would see a slight increase or would stay roughly the same.

The only write off should be: Medical Expense, Pre-Tax contributions to Retirement, Children (Capped), Interest (Capped), Student Exemptions, Charitable Donations (Capped), and Disability Statuses.

Tiered Flat Tax with no cap on income. From 1 buck to Infinity, Uncle Sam gets his share.

That is it, tax code fixed.

Corp/Bus/Trade tax code is a separate issue.

So your Idea is to just tax rich more, instead of doing something about the REAL problem, which is government spending to much. How much tax is enough? If you read the data I linked from the IRS in the other reply, you would see the tax rate average was 23% for the top 1% of earners in the U.S. So for you to say they don't pay a higher tax rate is false. However their are loopholes that get ANYONE that qualifies for them the right to write off certain amount of taxes. If you own a home, no matter how much you make a year, you could write off so much tax off that if you meet the requirement of filing taxes long form. You can also write off taxes if you own a farm and have a regular job. Their are many ways to write off taxes. It doesn't only pertain to the rich. If you want to not give any incentives to companies, well gratulations you will run all of them off someplace else. Why in the hell do you think companies are going overseas?

If you don't give companies incentives, this means they will find the cheapest place to build their product and move it there. So this means, no jobs, no tax revenue, then high unemployment. Kinda like we have now, so taxing people more because someone is telling you it's the rich people that are bad isn't worth a shit. And the funny thing is, the same people that you hear this bullshit from, are rich themselves.

/set rant to boil

What's "up my ass" is morons who blindly believe what they see on the news, assume that it must be true, then vomit it back up as though it were the gospel truth, thinking that it makes them sound intelligent. That kind of parroting of the status quo is only useful for one thing. It makes a stark contrast between the free thinkers and the sheep. Who will stand up for you when they come for you with the shears?

Any tax cuts and loopholes that any taxpayer uses are WRITTEN INTO THE TAX CODE. If they were doing anything illegal they'd be arrested (ask Wesley Snipes), unless of course they are chosen to be the next Secretary of the Treasury or are a congressman. Then they just get to go on the news and talk about how complicated the tax code THAT HE HELPED WRITE is. All of that aside, regardless of what tax codes people are able to use to avoid paying taxes the fact remains that the top 5% of wage earners pay over HALF of all taxes in this country. For you to suggest that they aren't already paying more than their "fair share" is ludicrous and serves to illustrate how either brainwashed, or simple minded you really are.

I do live in this country. I work my ass off for what I have. I've never taken a dime of public assistance. I've been completely broke. I worked my way out of it. It took years to recover. I didn't stand around waiting for someone to help me. I got off my ass and did it myself. So don't give me your sanctimonious bull shit about how some people just can't get by without other people's money. I give to people in need (of my choosing) in addition to what the government confiscates from my paycheck to give to you. I'm proud to be a citizen of the United States of America and it sickens me to see the nanny state we've become and are digging our way further into.

I didn't have to watch the news about the debt ceiling debacle because I understand the problem. I also know that just because its not the hot topic on CNN doesn't mean its been fixed. I don't need to watch another self-serving politician talk about how there is nothing he can do while blaming the other guy for the problem. You, me, and every FUCKING one of them are to blame and I am sick and tired of watching them toss blame around like a hot potato. Sack up and fix the problem. In your house, when you have run out of money, do you call up your creditors and ask for more or do you cut your spending to try to save money to pay your bills? It works the same way for the government. Raising the debt ceiling doesn't do anything but kick the can further down the road while making the problem worse for the folks who will eventually have to pay it off.

Corporations don't pay taxes, they pass the tax onto the consumers.
So when you say raise taxes on THE EVIL BIG CORPORATIONS you are really saying raise taxes on the poor.

Well DUH, I never said they weren't.



I didn't, just because some people are perfectly abled lazy jerks who suck $$ off the system should in no way mean every on SSI/disability/unemployment recipient be blamed for every jerk out there who screws the system.

The wealthy are not taxed fairly, corporations go over seas because they are cheap, they can pay the workers way less. How many times has healthcare, education, or services for the poor &/or disabled been cut? Save $$ save $$ right, cut this or that, but keep giving the rich their tax cuts & don't close those loopholes!!!

Three very brief periods. First in 1971 spending for these programs was cut from ~$100 billion (adjusted for inflation to $ in 2000) to ~$97 billion. By 1975 it was up over $150 billion. Again in 1982 cut from $225 billion to ~$205 billion and back up to $225 by 1988. Finally around 1994 spending for those services dipped from ~$355 billion to ~$352 billion. As of 2000 spending for these services was over $425 billion.

As you can see, even though we've been steadily increasing spending for these programs (~$15 billion in 1945 to ~$425 billion in 2000), the people on them and the people who can benefit by telling folks their services will be cut, continue to scream about how cutting spending hurts the poor. How do they know? We've never tried it...

As for the loopholes, they are there so that the folks with money and the big businesses that employ folks don't take all their money and jobs and run. Rather than simplify the tax code the politicians just amend it to make holes for their donors to slip through. Even with those holes, I'll say this again because apparently you keep missing it, THE TOP 5% OF WAGE EARNERS PAY OVER 50% OF THIS NATION'S TAXES AND THE BOTTOM 50% OF WAGE EARNERS PAY VIRTUALLY NOTHING. Please notice that these numbers are only comprised of wage earners(for argument's sake, let's define wage earners as: anyone who gets off their ass, takes responsibility for themselves and gets a job, no matter how "beneath them" that job may be) . That doesn't include the nearly HALF of the country who is receiving some sort of benefit FROM THE OTHER HALF! What fantasy world do you live in where that is fair?

Obviously you either can't read or simply refuse to believe the facts. So I'll post this link again...
http://www.taxfoundation.org/research/show/250.html#Data
Now if you look at that link, you will see that the top 10% pay anywhere from 18%-23% tax on their earnings, while 11% to the rest of the top 50% pay anywhere from 13% to 15% tax on their earnings. And the other 50% pay virtually nothing, so as Kaotic said where's the fairness? If paying the most in taxes isn't enough already, how much percentage of tax should the top earners pay? 40%? 50%? all that will do is cause everyone with a lot of money to invest their wealth overseas. I know this is hard for you to understand. It sounds like you don't want any liberty,freedom or have any incentive to work towards the American dream. It sounds like you want nothing other than PURE socialist, even communist country. Where they take from one class, and give to another class. Sounds like you just wanted things handed to you on a platter, so you don't have to do anything.

To get back on topic with this thread, our government officials want to take retirment benefits away from the military. Men and women who VOLUNTEER their service to their country, and that aren't paid very well for the things they do. Say like losing a limb in action, even losing their life. Do YOU think our military members should have their PENSIONS cut? If you're so mad about the rich, why aren't you bitching about YOUR rich congressional leaders not taking a lead role and wanting to cut their PENSIONS first, instead of people that make FAR less money than themselves? Please answer THAT question.I doubt you have an answer.

The GOP supports tax increase for the middle class and the poor. The insanely rich, on the other hand...

GOP may OK tax increase that Obama hopes to block

This is like watching the village idiot trying to explain the theroy or relativity to a symposium of Astro-Physicists.

Jesus H Fucking Christ!! You're talking about money that is supposed to be going to pay for Social Security, AND for most folks your talking about a couple hundred bucks a year. This is a smoke screen designed for one group to say "see, when its your money they want to take it away, but give corporations a tax break." Are you really so dense that you can't see this for the political finger pointing that it is?

So, the reality here is the elephants are advocating for getting more money for social security while the donkeys are pushing for less funding for a system that the GOA says will be completely bankrupt, at the current rate, by 2035 (and most folks with a brain know that is a VERY conservative estimate).

Kaotic.... I love the way you think!

I am the working poor, and every year they send me back all the money I paid in and a bit extra. They don't raise the taxes on the so called poor because we don’t really pay any.....we loan it to them and get a great return.....wrong but that’s the way it is.

I have no right to anyone’s money, the people/companies with money earned it in some manner....it belongs to them. If I want more money then I need to work harder/smarter not sit around waiting for someone to give me something.

I like the idea of a flat tax, and then everyone has a stake in the government and what it does. The company that owns the factory I work in paid zero income tax this year....that is just wrong. GE should owe some kind of tax. Flat tax no deductions.... everyone pays a little based on income.

You want nice stuff then hard work/education and a little luck.... nobody was born with a right to anything.

And this is the root of what has become evil.. It's progressively turning more and more into this as the divide becomes greater between the two parties as well society.

If everyone would just buck up and work to a common good, things for us little people would be better, but then again without strife and conflict nothing gets done.

I think a lot of this BS that people think they have a right to other peoples money comes from things like, participation trophies in competition these days. When you start giving things away, and giving a "good job" on mediocre job. Then you are just feeding the beast.

I believe this is where entitlements, and pure greed starts. I never got a trophy that I didn't win. I would be brave enough to say, that If I were given a trophy for simply "showing up" I would be more disgusted by that, then losing and not getting anything. Losing makes you toughen up, work harder/smarter, so next time you will have a better chance of winning. This is just my opinion where most of this entitlement, you owe me something for being here atttitude comes from.

Damn, I need to stop posting so soon after I wake up. I butchered what was to be engrish.

Those things don't help Wolf, but those scenarios are fairly new. What started this is the politicians telling someone, anyone, that they should/could have something for nothing other than the great blessing to be born in the freest nation on earth. Which in turn lead to those politicians getting elected and enacting their ridiculous (though likely well intentioned) policies. Fast forward to today where the good intentions are completely gone and SSI and Welfare are nothing other than a means to torture the electorate into voting the way the scumbags want them to.

Thanks Banshee