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Originally Posted By: Mithus
system error: warning...
system error: warning...
system error: high King is engaging in political/religious discussion..

I'm just kidding :)


LOL!


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Hey Cheerio, here is one of my favorite sites.

I have the Quran site linked right now, but they have the Bible, Quran, and Book of Morman! Talk about some crazy stuff. I actually wonder if religious folks actually read this stuff!

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/index.htm

Where do you think I get all my awesome quotes!


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Originally Posted By: Derid
Religious social conservatism being the downfall of Islam, and secularism and especially later the rise of Deism in Protostant lands however coincided with the rise of the West.


US is all too eager to do exactly the same, with us already falling behind on genetic and stem research.

Religious conservatism, regardless of religion that it parasitize, with its anti science, anti evidence-based social policies is problematic part. For now GOP is kowtowing to religious conservatism, and unless stopped will forcibly eject US from Western Civilization.

Last edited by sinij; 03/21/12 08:21 PM.

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Well, I more or less agree with that. The problem is overall the Dem platform isnt any better. So the question in my mind, which would be the easier party to reform?

Generally I have held the view that the easier party to work with is the GOP, as it has large segments that would actually like to break away from the religious dogmatists.


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You know issue is important when me and Derid agree.

Last edited by sinij; 03/21/12 08:57 PM.

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Originally Posted By: Derid
Generally I have held the view that the easier party to work with is the GOP, as it has large segments that would actually like to break away from the religious dogmatists.


I totally disagree. The GOP is 47% White and Highly religious according to the Gallup poll below. Other races are not really represented. I think you are holding on to the fiscal conservative ideas of the past, which I feel that Ron Paul represented. When you see the trouncing he got and is getting in the nomination process, those days are over, and in my opinion, the GOP has become the Christian / Morman Theocracy Party.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/142826/republicans-remain-disproportionately-white-religious.aspx


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I don't think that Derid's "break away from the religious dogmatists" for GOP is possible, but in a hypothetical situation where that would happen it would be indeed the easier party to work with.


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Jet, there are plenty of highly religious people who have no desire to use force to inflict their faith/feelings on the rest of society. The problematic people are not the ones who simply hold to a religion, but rather the ones who think their interpretation of personal faith should be forcibly applied to everyone. You really should take a more granular approach to examining the GOP.

Another thing to remember, is the GOP becomes more secular - by virtue of having more secularists be members.

Also, while I disagree with Mitt Romney on a ton of things I actually have not seen evidence of some kind of Mormon Theocracy or his intent or desire to create one. He was a fairly liberal Gov of Mass. for cryin out loud.

I certainly think it is possible and even common to be a bit too paranoid about religion.

The Church Obama went to was quite an extremist church, I think if you want to hold Romney to some kind of standard based simply on things that may be said at his church - you are being very hypocritical if you do not hold Obama to the same standard.


The racial issue is another matter. Too many blacks are caught in a system that does in fact try to teach them to be Dems. When it comes to Hispanics, the GOP can only blame itself for holding to an idiotic "progressive" platform in regards to immigration and work visas.

( Yes its "progressive" , the conservative/reactionary approach is actually one of relatively easy immigration or at least work visas... which is how it was for the vast bulk of our history. )

Hispanic immigrants are actually typically pretty religious and pretty conservative and the GOP has shot itself in the foot with them because it doesnt have the moral courage to stand up to the ignorant " thearyre takin' urr jobbsss" crowd.

I actually wrote a position paper/ essay that I bought up a ton of research for ( polling data, like Rasmussen platinum etc) to make the case that with shifting demographics and attitudes the GOP needs to change on some issues to reflect the changing reality or there will not be an effective GOP in about 8 years.

GOP is, without changes, in dire straits without reform once the Silent Generation finishes dying off. I consider this potential outcome catastrophic for the nation, regardless of the fact that the GOP as a whole does in fact hold many idiotic positions.


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Just an Observation

I noticed Sinij didn't even try to reply to Cheerio's last post. I find that Interesting.

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If you can find a point in Cheerio's ramblings, feel free to quote it and I will respond to it.


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