The KGB Oracle Forums General Public Discussion (PUBLIC) The Pub A story worth reading - immigration and labor

I know people in a similar situation as the farm owners in this story.

Though I typically am pretty conservative, I have never bought into the anti-immigration platform. This article does a good job of explaining some of the reasons why.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-newlatinosouth-farmworkers-story,0,3768292.htmlstory

I understand how both the farmer and workers need each other in these instances. But when these same workers, that are't making very much money get sick or injured, they will be taken to a hospital and given treatement. Then either they are given some sort of government assisted medical or the hospital ends up with the bill. Either way, this is ONE of the reasons why healthcare is the way it is. Because someone has to pay for it. Whether the hospital add's it to cost to someone else or the government pays the bill.

The reason they work for such low wages is that they are here illegally. Plus making $5 an hour is still more than they would make in Mexico. They also get away from the violence that's going on down there as well. I have no problem with ANYONE wanting to come to America, my problem is they do not pay taxes and help comtribute by adding tax revenues from their paycheck the way I do.

The majority doesn't have health insurance and that comes right back to taxes being taken out of my check to help pay for them. I like having MY money that I work my ass off for, I do not like government taking it from me because THEY want to force me to help someone. I'll help anyone that's willing to help themselves, by helping themselves I mean actually trying to become a citizen or at the very least apply for a work visa, so they can get a better job and help contribute in taxes and health insurance. Bascially, be part of the solution and not the problem.

I tend to agree with you Wolf, what I am in general disagreement with - is the prevailing attitudes that there should be no path to citizenship, that the borders need tightened, that everyone needs papers.. and so forth.

But on this topic, so many Americans say that they want the illegals out, and want them to stay out. That is the part I do not understand.

One of the few things Bush wanted to do that I thought actually made some sort of sense, was immigration reform and path to citizenship/green card. However the conservative body politic shot that down right quick, and still maintains the same stance in the current GOP primary.

I just can not comprehend it, our economy depends on cheap labor. We have insane unemployment levels, just counting those who are still actively reporting to the Dept of Labor and looking for work (ie: official figures)... getting rid of cheap labor will not help.

Cheap labor creates white collar jobs. It gives white collar folks people to manage, it lets a business make a profit so they need an accountant, and a receptionist, and clerical support, and so on and so forth. So many businesses just cannot compete with foreign producers if denied access to cheap labor.

You are right that its shitty how illegals who might not contribute fairly in terms of taxes receive services - and I agree. But I just cannot fathom why so many want to chase away the cheap labor, instead of paving the path for them to start paying taxes.

I thought Bush's plan was a good one as well. And If I'm not mistaken, Rick Perry has similiar idea's. I hope he throws his hat into the Presidential race.

Sorry to get off topic here... but I seen him interveiwed and he (Rick Perry) was saying since Obama's been in office, that the EPA has been trying relentlessly to shutdown oil companies... really? That's about the dumbest shit you could do with unemployment at 9.1% it makes you wonder, does Obama really want to drop the unemployment rate, by letting the EPA run rampant and shutdown oil companies.

Two tier system.

Citizen

Civilian

Anyone can come and legally be a Civilian, find gainful employment, pay taxes, and enjoy the basic civil liberties given to legal Civilians.

All legal Civilians can achieve Citizenship through a number of heavily scrutinized paths.

All capitol crime convictions remove Citizen/Civilian status and individuals are then transferred to the Republic of Texas for the entirety, not good time allowed, term of sentence.

All non-capitol crimes will follow a strict almost "Thailand" approach of community service and sever public corporal punishment. Yes in my world, you will get caned or put in the pillory. Public service will consist of work camps that provide service to infrastructure and state projects. Yes you will be out there working a shovel, digging a ditch for the new "Tas-o-rin San Solar Plant" in Nevada, scheduled for completion sometime in the future.

Welcome to a dictatorship, as always, have nice day.

It's not that you watch to much Faux News, Wolf, its that you repeat it.....

How about holding them to the rules on the book. If they did that we wouldn't need to go after them as much. Don't play it off like the Military Industrial complex is some Care Bear cotton candy land provider of all things good. One hand is just as dirty as the other.

The problem with that theory is that they do pay taxes. In order to get a job they have to make up a fake SSN. Then they cant file a return and get back like a lot of others for fear of getting caught. Think about it.
I don't blame the people I'd do the same if I was in their shoes. I blame the companies that take advantage of them and other workers.

Blame the companies? What on earth is there to blame the companies for? Trying to stay in business? Trying to make money?

Don't you just hate working for a company that's trying to make money? Really, who do they think they are making money and not giving it to some lazy fuck that doesn't want to help themselves.