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#80102 - 11/11/10 06:14 AM Re: THE TRUTH about the ground zero "Mosque" [Re: Kaotic]  
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Originally Posted By: Kaotic
Originally Posted By: JetStar
Well I know you think I am a tree hugging liberal, so why not take it from the most trusted news program in the US. Here are the facts. The guy who is funding this thing actually worked for the Bush Administration.


We only think you're a tree hugging liberal because the things you say and advocate doing are tree hugger liberal things laugh


Hmmm let me get this right !!


#80168 - 11/13/10 01:37 AM Re: THE TRUTH about the ground zero "Mosque" [Re: Prism]  

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Jet, your not really a tree hugging liberal are you?

I see several sane, and some slightly insane people posting here, but I wanna make sure before my votes come in (yes I know.. overconfident) that I am not gonna be surrounded by tree hugging liberals when politics come up.. One or two is fine.. its gives everyone else someone to make fun of..

#80242 - 11/15/10 04:43 AM Re: THE TRUTH about the ground zero "Mosque" [Re: ]  
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Lets just put it this way he voted for Obama !! Need to go any further !!


#80267 - 11/15/10 07:31 PM Re: THE TRUTH about the ground zero "Mosque" [Re: Prism]  
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I am pretty much the tree hugger here. All these other clowns drank the Fox News coolaide.


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#80269 - 11/15/10 08:37 PM Re: THE TRUTH about the ground zero "Mosque" [Re: JetStar]  
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You bet ya FOX all the way baby !!

Sorry they bash the hell out of CNN = Clinton News Network !


#80296 - 11/16/10 02:28 AM Re: THE TRUTH about the ground zero "Mosque" [Re: Prism]  
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Its amazing that smart people like you guys believe in this plain bullshit. Just Fox saying things over and over does not make them true. Take WMD and Bush, or Saddam and Osama's supposed ties. Its all lies and your guys blindly believe it.
The most frustrating thing is that you all would support policies that make YOUR lives worse, supporting the greed in corporate America that the conservative right represents. I mean take the $200 million a day they claimed that the latest Presidential trip took, or the 135 ship escort. I cant believe anyone is stupid enough to buy that bill of goods. There are countless well documented examples of this kind of shit, here are a couple:
Quote:
The Project on Excellence in Journalism report in 2006[43] showed that 68 percent of Fox cable stories contained personal opinions, as compared to MSNBC at 27 percent and CNN at 4 percent. The "content analysis" portion of their 2005 report also concluded that "Fox was measurably more one-sided than the other networks, and Fox journalists were more opinionated on the air."[46]
A 2007 Pew Research Center poll of viewer political knowledge indicated that Fox News Channel viewers scored 35% in the high-knowledge area, the same as the national average. This was not significantly different than local news, network news and morning news, and was slightly lower than CNN (41%). Viewers of The O'Reilly Factor (51%) scored in the high category along with Rush Limbaugh (50%), NPR (51%), major newspapers (54%), Newshour with Jim Lehrer (53%) The Daily Show (54%) and The Colbert Report (54%).[47]
Research has shown that there is a correlation between the presence of the Fox News Channel in cable markets and increases in Republican votes in those markets.[48]
The documentary Outfoxed: Rupert Murdoch's War on Journalism claims that Fox reporters and anchors, rather than citing an anonymous source in order to advance a storyline, Fox personalities allegedly use the phrase "some people say" to include unattributed conservative opinion and commentary into reports. In the film, Media Matters for America president David Brock noted that some shows, like Fox's evening news program, Special Report with Brit Hume, tend to exhibit editorializing attitudes and behavior when on the air.
A study by the Program on International Policy Attitudes (PIPA),[49] in the Winter 03-04 issue of Political Science Quarterly, reported that viewers of Fox News, the Fox Broadcasting Company, and local Fox affiliates were more likely than viewers of other news networks to hold three misperceptions:[50]
67% of Fox viewers believed that the "U.S. has found clear evidence in Iraq that Saddam Hussein was working closely with the al Qaeda terrorist organization" (Compared with 56% for CBS, 49% for NBC, 48% for CNN, 45% for ABC, 16% for NPR/PBS).
The belief that "The U.S. has found Weapons of Mass Destruction in Iraq" was held by 33% of Fox viewers and only 23% of CBS viewers, 19% for ABC, 20% for NBC, 20% for CNN and 11% for NPR/PBS
35% of Fox viewers believed that "the majority of people [in the world] favor the U.S. having gone to war" with Iraq. (Compared with 28% for CBS, 27% for ABC, 24% for CNN, 20% for NBC, 5% for NPR/PBS)
In response, Fox News frequent guest Ann Coulter characterized the PIPA findings as "misperceptions of pointless liberal factoids" and called it a "hoax poll."[51] Bill O'Reilly called the study "absolute crap."[52] Roger Ailes referred to the study as "an old push poll."[53] James Taranto, editor of OpinionJournal.com, the Wall Street Journal's online editorial page, called the poll "pure propaganda."[54] PIPA issued a clarification on October 17, 2003, stating that "The findings were not meant to and cannot be used as a basis for making broad judgments about the general accuracy of the reporting of various networks or the general accuracy of the beliefs of those who get their news from those networks. Only a substantially more comprehensive study could undertake such broad research questions," and that the results of the poll show correlation, but do not prove causation.[55][56]
A study published in November 2005 by Tim Groseclose, a professor of political science at UCLA, comparing political bias from such news outlets as the New York Times, USA Today, the Drudge Report, the Los Angeles Times, and Fox News’ Special Report, concluded "all of the news outlets we examine, except Fox News’ Special Report and the Washington Times, received scores to the left of the average member of Congress." In particular, Fox News' Special Report with Brit Hume had an Americans for Democratic Action rating that was right of the political center. Groseclose used the number of times a host cited a particular think tank on his or her program and compared it with the number of times a member of the U.S. Congress cited a think tank, correlating that with the politician's Americans for Democratic Action rating.[57][58]
Geoff Nunberg, a professor of linguistics at UC Berkeley and a National Public Radio commentator, criticized the methodology of the study and labeled its conclusions invalid.[59] He pointed to what he saw as a Groseclose's reliance on interpretations of facts and data that were taken from sources that were not, in his view, credible. Groseclose and Professor Jeff Milyo rebutted, saying Nunberg "shows a gross misunderstanding [of] our statistical method and the actual assumptions upon which it relies."[60] Mark Liberman (a professor of Computer Science and the Director of Linguistic Data Consortium at the University of Pennsylvania), who helped post Groseclose and Milyo's rebuttal, later posted how the statistical methods used to calculate this bias pose faults.[61][62] Mark concluded "that many if not most of the complaints directed against G&M are motivated in part by ideological disagreement — just as much of the praise for their work is motivated by ideological agreement. It would be nice if there were a less politically fraught body of data on which such modeling exercises could be explored."[61]
A December 2007 study/examination by Robert Lichter of a self-described nonpartisan media watchdog group, the Center for Media and Public Affairs found that Fox News's evaluations of all of the 2008 Democratic presidential candidates combined was 51% positive and 49% negative, while the network's evaluations of the Republican presidential candidates 51% negative and 49% positive. The study, however, did find that Fox's coverage was less negative toward Republican candidates than the coverage of broadcast networks.[63] In addition, FAIR has noted that Lichter himself is a Fox News contributor. Also, on the January 10, 2008, edition of The O'Reilly Factor, Lichter stated that he only examined the first half of the Special Report with Brit Hume.[citation needed]
The “2010 State of the News Media” Report by the Pew Center on Excellence in Journalism found that in 2009, Fox News Channel had average daytime audience of 1.2 million and nighttime viewership of 2.13 million, higher than its cable competitors. For 2009, CNN continued to lead Fox online, as CNN.com had more than 20.7 million unique visitors daily, compared to 12.7 million unique visitors daily at Fox.com. The report added that Fox spends $674 million on its news programs in 2009, and that 72 percent of this amount was for “producing its host-driven programs including multimillion-dollar salaries.” The remaining 28 percent ($188 million) went to administrative and overhead costs, including news staffing and bureaus. That figure is less than half of what is spent by CNN and HLN on its administrative and overhead costs.



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#80349 - 11/17/10 10:18 AM Re: THE TRUTH about the ground zero "Mosque" [Re: JetStar]  

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Originally Posted By: Jet
Its amazing that smart people like you guys believe in this plain bullshit. Just Fox saying things over and over does not make them true. Take WMD and Bush, or Saddam and Osama's supposed ties. Its all lies and your guys blindly believe it.
The most frustrating thing is that you all would support policies that make YOUR lives worse, supporting the greed in corporate America that the conservative right represents. I mean take the $200 million a day they claimed that the latest Presidential trip took, or the 135 ship escort. I cant believe anyone is stupid enough to buy that bill of goods. There are countless well documented examples of this kind of shit, here are a couple:

Just a couple of things:
1. Saddam did indeed have WMD.. he even used them on his own people (the Kurds during their rebellion), not to mention the Iranians. Look it up.. he gassed and killed over a million people.

2. Saddam and Osama.. I know there were Bush/Osama ties, but not positive about Saddam. It is logical that they might have hooked up after the WTC incident and the subsequent invasion of Iraq. "My enemies enemy is my friend after all"

3. The Obama vacation costs.. Just to be clear: Nobody knows how much all that shit is costing us, but based on the number of planes, helicopters, hundreds of staff members (not to mention 500+ security agents), and the fact that they are paying people to remove coconuts from the goddamned trees so dear leader doesnt have one fall on his head, it is costing way too much. Excessive is the understatement of the decade. For a guy who is always talking about the American people needing to "tighten our belts" or how those of us who work hard "can afford to pay a little more", the bastard sure is living high on the hog, and using my money to do it.




Based on what I see you saying, if there was an Osama/Saddam connection, it would have been legitimate to go after one or the other. Ok, so what about the Obama/Ayers connection? One organized a bombing campaign that killed dozens of civilians, while the other is quite vocal about how fucked up we are as a country. Sounds remarkably similar.. Why the double standard, Jet?

To touch on your comment about us voting to make it worse on ourselves, I dont quite see it that way. If I bust my ass to make more than $250,000 a year, I do not deserve to be hit with a tax $35,000 above and beyond what I would have paid if I made $249,000 a year. Talk about being penalized for productivity. How is voting for a guy who advocates punishment of productivity in my interests? Why in the world would I support those policies?

And thats just the tip of the iceburg... wE could get into healthcare and immigration (and I am sure we will at some point), or foriegn policy (which you would do well to leave alone.. your guy isnt exactly doing so hot there at the moment).

Why you think we should support the policies of those who would destroy us is beyond me.. you seem like such a smart dude (but looks have deceived me before).

Your stance against greed would have been logical if you were in Europe or anywhere else that has an aristocracy, or an elite class that acquires its wealth through exploitation of the masses, and where the masses have no ability to cross the class threshold. In America, however, it is entirely possible to CREATE wealth, which is what set us apart from virtually all otehr nations and made this country great. You see, we were the first country in history to have a system that allowed the actual creation of wealth. Before that, the Robber-Barons simply siezed their wealth, which is why the word greed was given such a bad reputation.
Here in America, greed is a virtue rather than a sin, provided you are not a thief. Thieves exist in all cultures, and the for the purposes of this conversation, we will define a thief as "one who takes the unearned from the unwilling"
Working your ass off the generate a customer base and a revenue stream does not quite fit that description now does it?
How about becoming a mega corporation who still sells a product? I dont hear anyone complaining about cheap cereal or toothpaste or the fact that you can buy it all and more in one place (try doing that anywhere else in the world).

No, the only ones I see who fit that description are the ones who seem to consider themselves Americas aristocracy, and allow themselves to forget that we do not actually have one..

#80358 - 11/17/10 05:32 PM Re: THE TRUTH about the ground zero "Mosque" [Re: ]  
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1. Saddam WMD were taken from him after the first Gulf war. He did not want to admit to having none, because he was terrified of Iran and did not think the USA would really invade.

2. Saddam and Osama hated each other, one was secular the other jihadist. There is no evidence they collaborated, and no reason to ever think they did or would. Al Quada wanted to undermine Iraq and set themselves up there, but were generally not able to do so until we were kind enough to eliminate not just Saddam but the entire Baathist secular establishment.

3. That 200 million a day was not for Obama vacation, but rather his trip to India. It is also grossly off the mark. also remember, that all those personnel involved are going to still be drawing a check whether they are in India that week or not. Honestly, making big foreign trips to important countries like India is directly related to national security and what a President should be doing.

I do agree with your last couple paragraphs though. There is nothing good about Socialism and forced wealth redistribution.

It just seems important, that we all try and keep focused on what is really wrong, and what is really important - like fighting Socialism.

One big reason for this - is convincing the opposition. Convincing people like Jet, for example.

You will never convince someone like Jet that Obama is dangerous to the USA by using a false reference like that 200mil a day crap, or trying to convince anyone that Bush had a clue.

But if you focus on the evil inherent in the Obamacare bill for instance, or the monetary policy being espoused and implemented by Bernake but supported by Obama - that is a different story. There is plenty wrong with Obama, but a great chunk of America will refuse to listen, if the same people pointing out the flaws are also wearing flaws considered by many to be just as large.


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#80364 - 11/17/10 09:40 PM Re: THE TRUTH about the ground zero "Mosque" [Re: Derid]  
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Originally Posted By: Derid

1. Saddam WMD were taken from him after the first Gulf war. He did not want to admit to having none, because he was terrified of Iran and did not think the USA would really invade.

2. Saddam and Osama hated each other, one was secular the other jihadist. There is no evidence they collaborated, and no reason to ever think they did or would. Al Quada wanted to undermine Iraq and set themselves up there, but were generally not able to do so until we were kind enough to eliminate not just Saddam but the entire Baathist secular establishment.

3. That 200 million a day was not for Obama vacation, but rather his trip to India. It is also grossly off the mark. also remember, that all those personnel involved are going to still be drawing a check whether they are in India that week or not. Honestly, making big foreign trips to important countries like India is directly related to national security and what a President should be doing.


I agree with these responses wholeheartedly, and they are documented fact. The Republican propaganda machine has successfully brain washed people into believing otherwise.

To me there is underlying racial prejudice here that the far right just cant or wont admit. Why is it that NOONE has ever questioned the costs of a Presidential trip in the past?

How many people do you all know that have been bankrupted because they got sick, and then dropped by their insurance company. I know plenty! Why does noone question Medicare? It is a successfully run GOVERNMENT socialized medicine program. Bottom line is healthcare should NOT be for profit. It is totally a conflict of interest. Is Britain socialist? How about Canada? I just dont understand how you folks can think this way. "Obamacare" got raped by the republicans and special interests. You should educate yourselves on what really happened during the negotiations leading up to passing what was a tained version of the vision, but way better than nothing. I would suggest:
FRONTLINE: Obama's Deal

If you want to get the real story about WMD and Iraq, you should get it right out of the horses mouth, from Bush insiders, and again a FRONTLINE piece created by PBS:
FRONTLINE: Bush's War

To counter Derid's last point, In my opinion, it is exactly the opposite of what you see. I know for a fact that noone will take the time to educate themselves, and will go on believing the tainted stories from places like Fox News and the Religious Right. It is this closed mindedness that is leading this country to ruin. I have re-written the old saying to go like this, "You can lead a horse to water, but you cant make them THINK".


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#80365 - 11/17/10 09:45 PM Re: THE TRUTH about the ground zero "Mosque" [Re: JetStar]  
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Oh,

One more of my favorite FRONTLINEs for those that care to educate themselves:
FRONTLINE: The Dark Side

This is the TRUE story of your buddy Dick Cheney.

And before you go blasting FRONTLINE, read this before you make a fool of yourself:
Quote:
Since 1983, FRONTLINE has served as American public television's flagship public affairs series. Hailed upon its debut on PBS as "the last best hope for broadcast documentaries," FRONTLINE's stature over 28 seasons is reaffirmed each week through incisive documentaries covering the scope and complexity of the human experience.


When FRONTLINE was born, however, the prospects for television news documentaries looked grim. Pressure was on network news departments to become profitable, and the spirit of outspoken journalistic inquiry established by programs like Edward R. Murrow's See It Now and Harvest of Shame had given way to entertainment values and feature-filled magazine shows. Therefore, it fell to public television to pick up the torch of public affairs and carry on this well-established broadcast news tradition.

Since its inception, FRONTLINE has never shied away from tough, controversial issues or complex stories. In an age of anchor celebrities and snappy sound bites, FRONTLINE remains committed to providing a primetime venue for engaging reports that fully explore and illuminate the critical issues of our times. Starting with the 2010-2011 season, the series is expanding to a year-round broadcast presence that will include adding several magazine-format programs, which will enable FRONTLINE to respond more quickly to breaking news stories.

To support the creation of these new segments and programs, FRONTLINE has begun deepening its existing partnerships with ProPublica, the Center for Investigative Reporting, and other respected news organizations. New partnerships with NPR, Planet Money, and other news outlets, meanwhile, are supporting FRONTLINE's efforts to cultivate a new, younger generation of producers and reporters.

"TELEVISION'S LAST FULLY SERIOUS BASTION OF JOURNALISM."
Newsday
Over the years, FRONTLINE has built a reputation for powerful reporting that tackles the tough, controversial, and complex stories that shape our times. From Martin Smith's on-the-ground reporting in Obama's War to Michael Kirk's investigation into the hidden history of the financial crisis; from Ofra Bikel's examination of America's racial divide over the O.J. Simpson verdict, to special reports like The Age of AIDS or Bush's War, and provocative journeys like Hedrick Smith's search for the answer to the question, Is Wal-Mart Good for America? FRONTLINE gives its award-winning journalists and filmmakers the time needed to thoroughly research a story and the time on-air to tell the story in a compelling way.

Credible, thoughtful reporting combined with powerful narrative, a good story well told: That is at the heart of FRONTLINE's commitment to its viewers.


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