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Joined: Apr 2003
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JetStar Offline OP
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Quote:

I know i'm a relative stranger here, but couldn't help but add my 2 cents. KGB has, and will always be, dominated by the herd mentality. What people enjoyed, from what i suspect, from KGB is the structure that it provided in worlds that provided little to none, namely UO and SB.

The problem is, the mainstream MMO player these days have WoW to go back to, and as much as people tend to hate that game, it will be the basis for mmo's for a long time, unless DFO proves to be as ambitious as they claim to be, which i'm sure all of us have doubts of.

You guys have a good mainstay of members, all of which seem to be gaming in different worlds. Don't you think it's time to make concessions and pick a game for the sake of unity? God knows my old guilds from DAOC and SB have fallen apart due to the old, age trap of "We're waiting for the perfect game." Would hate to see KGB as the final casualty of the UO guilds.

There will probably never be another UO, or EQ for that matter, because people have the choice of other, easier to learn, games. It's like women, if your standards are too high, chances are you'll never find that special one.

-Syloc




Interesting points. There is a part of this behind the scenes that you cant see from the outside. Many of us frequent our Ventrilo server, to BS and or play whatever game happens to be the "in" thing at the moment. From jumping back in WOW to playing Kartrider, all KGBers are gamers at heart.
It is much like a country at peace. Once we find a world we can enjoy and will hold our interest, we will unite and make a real go of it. Until that time, we can enjoy some casual gaming. I am sure the day will come. There are many people out there waiting for the same thing we long for, someone will see the income potential in this and give us what we desire.
We have to continue to be patient.


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Great points all, many of which I fully agree with, I know it's terrible to play devils advocate but I was just making simple statements and asking hard questions so I hope I can be forgiven if I offended anyone. There is much more to this topic however, but I feel Jet and Bibs have summed up KGBs agenda quite perfectly already and beating a dead horse is not necessary if the guild and leadership in question have already anticipated their future course of action. If anyones still interested on my views concerning guild ideologies and philosophical ramblings concerning guild organization please feel free to ask, although I know from reading Jets posts he has this well in hand already


I am Wrath, I am Steel, I am the Mercy of Angels.
mors est merces mea – death is my reward
morte in vitam non habet tenaci - Death has no grip on Life.
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JetStar Offline OP
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Drak,
The reason I make posts like this on the front page is to get as many opinions as possible, and not just from the KGB inter circle. I very much appreciate you and others that take the time to chime in and share your feelings.
I always strive to improve my performance as KGB leader, and I have learned to do this Captain Picard style. That is:
1) Propose the options
2) Gather information and opinions
3) Make the best choice possible for the organization as a whole.

I hope you will continue to share your thoughts and opinions, as I feel they are of value to our organization and our future.


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Ok, maybe this is just my patent idealism (yeah, I still haven't lost it) but I remember back in the good old days of UO we used to be able to hack the system, create our own servers, and play them. Is there still a way to do that in today's games? Or is there still a way to do that with UO?

Man, I look back at those years and I remember a group of pioneers. I remember running the guantlet into Trinsic the first day of gameplay and losing everything and having to work my way up from nothing to earn GM Tamer status. I remember guild wars before they were game sanctioned and I remember the KGB taking over an entire continent the day Seige Perilous came into play.
It seems to me that while the games devolved we never did. I would love a game like back in the day, I would love us to simulate a game like that! But this is a symptom of the current American world, afraid to extend hemselves, afraid to earn anything. We want to really play? Hell, I think we might have to create something ourselves.

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I don't know about UO, but I've done it with Lineage 2, Hiedi played it for a short while, we were even able to customize certain aspects of the game very detailedly. However I think we should stick with it. Betas are Betas, so it's not exactly a final product, and they might be taking away some things but might suprises with new things. It has all the basic elements that would be fun to play as a large guild. Immersing ourselves comes with time and will not happen 3 months before release, lol


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Quote:

Drak,
The reason I make posts like this on the front page is to get as many opinions as possible, and not just from the KGB inter circle. I very much appreciate you and others that take the time to chime in and share your feelings.
I always strive to improve my performance as KGB leader, and I have learned to do this Captain Picard style. That is:
1) Propose the options
2) Gather information and opinions
3) Make the best choice possible for the organization as a whole.

I hope you will continue to share your thoughts and opinions, as I feel they are of value to our organization and our future.




Without question KGB is a great location for civillized discussion, I personally have very radical viewpoints or opinions, and in the past I have rather unintentionally upset people, so I have learned to blunt my sharper comments in the presence of those I either do not know very well, or those I feel might misunderstand me.

Most recently, I have been seeking a more idealised game, with mechanics playing a more centralized role and graphical eye candy taking a back seat. I've sought certain guild empowering features and pvp elements and the closest thing I can find is Talisman. All for the benefit of guild enhancement or a themed guild design, as my ultimate goal is to build a fully realized and successful guild using many of my own ideologies and those of others.

More now than ever, am I starting to view gaming as a self aware game instead of a massively aware one from the context of the individual as well as from that of a guild perspective. In doing so I believe a guild needs to be located in a game that grants it those things most important, and that importance is defined by the guilds theme and beliefs as well as those of it's membership. By default those who join a guild join it for those very same reasons, and in doing so seek the same sorts of gaming experiences. This does not nessesarily mean that a guild will find that in each new game in development or that such cutting edge next generation games are going to provide it, sometimes you have to look into the past to see the future, sometimes knowing where you come from, helps you to know where your going, and it is this philosophy that has aroused some curiosity in your discussions.

Last edited by Drakiis; 02/27/08 02:52 PM.

I am Wrath, I am Steel, I am the Mercy of Angels.
mors est merces mea – death is my reward
morte in vitam non habet tenaci - Death has no grip on Life.
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Pardon my double post, but as a after thought I wanted to add that I believe KGB has awesome potential even in lesser games or games that have already fallen from prievious favor and success. This potential seems like such a terrible waste while in stasis awaiting the next game, but I can definately see the prudance in waiting and the wisdom Jet has lead the guild with. I find myself percieving things through the same lense as Jet when it comes to the future of gaming and the new games to come, yet I still retain ideals which prompt me to seek solutions where ever I can, even if those solutions do not coincide with those of KGB. Being torn to look for answers where none exist leaves KGB stuck in this so called stasis until Jets plan for a future game is realized, though it doesn't slow down my search for my own utopia it does still leave questions and uncertainty that might be answered by these future games. I guess this, in the end, is the untimate unknown factor for all of us regardless of our plans and depends on how far we are willing to go to hold to our convictions to play a game.


I am Wrath, I am Steel, I am the Mercy of Angels.
mors est merces mea – death is my reward
morte in vitam non habet tenaci - Death has no grip on Life.
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Well, as far as UO goes, it is possible to run private servers, but it does take a lot of work to do things right. There are a lot of free servers out there who have totally bastardized the game, but there are some good servers out there that have done all the hard work for us.

Currently, I'm playing on a shard called In Mani Ylem, which is very very close to what UO used to be before OSI screwed it up. Shard population is pretty low, so it's almost a single player game rather than an MMO, but it is still very good.

Keeps me busy until something worthy is released.


To the everlasting glory of the infantry...

Owain ab Arawn
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Owain, how is the lag there? If Shadowbane doesn't pick up off the ground maybe KGB could make a showing on that server. It would be easy to get our footing on a low population server, and maybe it would attract some of our allies and enemies to either play with us or fight us. That would be really cool as long as the devs and GMs don't screw with us like they have on other servers...


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After rereading Jets original comments I noticed that I erred in my own commentary, the real issues you touch on jet is todays game design, something well out of our personal ability to control.

I hate to spam, especially when quoting myself, though certain things just can't be said any other way. Please excuse the lengthiness of this post, you have been warned.

Quote:


Rogue Gamers Manifesto

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Shadowy images close about you as you read this, devious concepts, mingled with fool proof money making trends, with a sprinkling of lackluster design have brought about the dark age of gaming. With the influx of game cloning and compartmentalization, unique and creative game design seems on a decline. This combined with high value Intellectual Properties, various "enhancements" toward balance, built-in safety features and tutorials for those without common sense or the ability to problem solve and learn has given massive multiuser game design a bad reputation.

Gaming as we know it may be crying out for change from things like isolationism, grind gaming, and itemcentricity. A Utopian game is many different things to many different people, and is by no means ever been a perfect industry but there is hope. There have been failures and successes, but how we determine this is what's at question, and why there are those hidden in the dark recesses of the gaming community who fight to bring about a renaissance.

Why should you care? Simple, because you are a consumer and have rights to a quality product that delivers on it's advertised purpose. Would you buy a bottle of aspirin if it didn't cure a headache? Though I believe that there is an even deeper reason why, you are human, by definition a social creature and part of a community of like minded people. You play these games for entertainment yes, but it is an investment both in time and money regardless of how trivial it may seem.

Game companies are laughing all the way to the bank at what they perceive to be an indulgent, and decadent group of social misfits. As they rake in millions of dollars each year as you buy up their various game related merchandise and mass marketed super MMO's, they are using the bare minimum of the resources dedicated to producing a quality experience when compared to the social dynamics. Ever wonder why many companies merge or fold? Because there is a terrible monster out there, big business. They want the entire pie chart and are willing to devour all who oppose them. The small independents have only the slimmest of chances against such a foe, and it's these niche companies which are our future hope. The larger companies concern for vast wealth to appease shareholders, executives, and support partners is all about keeping the great money engine churning out proven design.

Risk taking is only an option after intense market research gives the OK, this is why I don't do questionnaires anymore, let them figure it out on their own and stop over analyzing my gaming tendencies. We are not lab rats, we are an ARMY! In opposition to the oppressed market, restrictive design, monitored communities, and enforced labor camps which are in essence what treadmills regardless of their design really are. Don't you often feel like there is a GM behind every bush? I keep waiting for the fun police to show up and make sure me and my guys aren't having any....fun that is. Where are the prison guards with shotguns in this huge social experiment? Can I get a orange jumpsuit please, preferably with a +40 Armor mod thanks.

But I digress, GM's have a place at the table sure, and I've known many good souls filling those shoes. It's not their fault and I am not meaning to pick on that group, they have enough problems all their own.

Perhaps I should just end by being blunt, you will always have support from those of us who are in the Revolution Army, walking the warriors path is difficult, but without those here fighting in the trenches all you'll ever have to look forward to is World of Everclone.




A somewhat overly dramatized piece I previously wrote elsewhere. For the sake of saving you all from my ramblings, you can read my other thoughts on this matter here;

http://www.looking4group.com/forums/showthread.php?t=267


I am Wrath, I am Steel, I am the Mercy of Angels.
mors est merces mea – death is my reward
morte in vitam non habet tenaci - Death has no grip on Life.
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