The KGB Oracle Forums General Public Discussion (PUBLIC) The Pub For those who value freedom...

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Regardless of whether or not we should be in Iraq isn't really the issue at hand here

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Go back to your original post, click on the link, and look at point number 1. If you want to backpedal on that now, I think we can officially agree to declare the article bullshit, and be done with it.

Owain, here's why I see the 'potential issue' to be an issue of its own. The problem isn't that Americans are being held captive, tortured, or any of the other things I've talked about possibly happening. The problem is that we're locking our country down in a way that, in the wrong hands (a fluke administration with really negative intentions), Americans could end up locked up and tortured for doing something that some authority didn't agree with, like I dunno, utilizing our right to free speech...

So here it is:

The Bush administration went a little overboard with our response to 9/11, but they could have done worse. Now, they're changing the constitution so that under the "right circumstances" (and we know that agencies like the CIA have a way of making up the "right circumstances") our system of checks and balances is all out of whack, and anyone they don't want to leave or enter the country won't be able to.

All in all, I can say that the primary (and almost sole) threat to the country RIGHT NOW is the terrorists, but we're setting ourselves up for internal corruption and/or abuse of power.

So far, it seems like we all agree on one thing: those who don't learn from history, are doomed to repeat it.

I'm pretty confident that we're stuck in this system of arguing rather than being more efficient and negotiate what will truly help filter terrorists out of our country, while not revoking the freedoms we enjoy from day to day.

Hmmm. As far as the response to 9/11 goes, they didn't go far enough to my way of thinging...

On the second part then:

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Now, they're changing the constitution so that under the "right circumstances" (and we know that agencies like the CIA have a way of making up the "right circumstances") our system of checks and balances is all out of whack, and anyone they don't want to leave or enter the country won't be able to.

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What 'right circumstances' are you referring to, and how are the checks and balances out of whack? And if someone has ties to a terrorist organization, damn straight they shouldn't be able to enter/leave the country.

Specifically, just what are you worried about, here? And if the best you can do is to offer some vague, "well, there is the potential for abuse", color me unimpressed. If you read my previous post, the new Democrat Congress has already displayed far more potiential for abuse to my way of thinking., Where is the righteous indignation about that!

All these posts on this topic Owain....play Vanguard already!

The military Commission Act is one that bothers me quite a bit, even after they amended it. It pretty much allows for any "enemy combatant" to disappear. As we currently stand, I'm with you in that it isn't an issue for us, right now. Lets say President X is elected 10 years down the road and is trying to do something he wants done, no matter the cost, so he promotes an idea, pulls some strings, and soon this questionable idea gets slipped in with a larger bill. The problem is, there are people who pose a huge threat to him if they take the government to court over how his new law is unconstitutional. When the president finds out about such people (because he's been using the Patriot Act to have his friends over in department X of the Pentagon harassing search engine companies for information on who's searching for what), people start to vanish in the night.

Right now, it doesn't matter who the threat in the White House will be, if one even comes into existence, and it doesn't matter when. The problem is that we're setting ourselves up to be in a bad position by allowing for a corrupt government to abuse excessive amounts of powers. If we leave holes in our system, then they can be abused. I don't want to disappear in the night because I think that gay marriage should be legal, abortion is no big deal, the drinking age should be abolished, drugs should be legalized and regulated by the FDA, seat belts and motorcycle helmets should be optional, and people should be able to do whatever they feel like doing in their own homes as long as it isn't injuring another person. And all that jazz.