The KGB Oracle Forums General Public Discussion (PUBLIC) The Pub Saving America?

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In addition, some communities have decided that since this is a public business, smoking is not permitted since it is not in the best interest of the public.

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That's one of the things that bugs me -- people deciding what's in my best interest for me. A bar owner should be allowed to drive away non-smoking customers by allowing smoking customers in his establishment.

Also, it's not so much that I think the big bad government is forcing things down our throat as much as I think some smaller laws here and there get slipped in fairly unnoticed.

Yeah, I have to agree with Crimthan, here. I smoke both pipes and cigars, but I can see how not everyone in the room might appreciate me lighting up that big Churchill. There are still plenty of places to smoke where I am not forcing my choice everyone else in the place.

Given that second hand smoke is admittedly a health hazard, this goes beyond people simply being annoyed.

I think you are going to have to come up with a different example, because this one doesn't float, in my book.

Derid and Slinger, my short message on traveling to appreciate America never said, like you're implying, that I think the US is perfect and we should just let our government push us around because, hey, "it could be worse".

When someone says something like "go travel some", and im sure you're tired of hearing it, they're saying it because they know that once you return from your travels you wont sit around allowing bad things to happen just because you've seen first hand that things could be worse... but rather you've expanded your reasoning and learned that some things are trivial and you learn which things are actually worth crying about.

For example, a kid who's grown up in a middle class home all his life in the suburbs and has always had hot showers in the morning might get all huffy and puffy and cry "bad government!" when all of a sudden they're living in an apt and the heat is turned off for a day. They give that sort of minor thing the same amount or more of their attention as they give to reports of a crack house down the street or low SAT scores in their state.

In the end traveling doesn't make you complacent with the US government but rather helps you to focus your energy on issues that really matter so that you can help change them...

Lets start with education and how the US is falling behind, especially in science/engineering.

I agree with you there Raekwon, the whole education thing... I haven't put much research into it, but I an confident that there are already groups out there trying to fight for better education systems, you just don't hear about it as much as the evolution vs creationism battles in education. :P

There may or may not be groupd out there trying to publicize every little law the government is working on, but that's definitely my intention, or at least part of it.

I don't see how productive this thread can actually be anymore, not until Derid and I have some battle plans drawn up, eheh. So I'm going to un-derail the thread and say if you're interested in helping, get a hold of one of us, otherwise, I don't have the time or energy to argue past politics right now. When I have a more firm grip on what's happening in the 'now' I'll post about something fun for us to discuss.

lol, it's not about being productive or not, we're all just bored message board trolls and debating crap actually helps you learn even if you pretend to know it all (im certainly guilty of that at times.)

Sling mentioned that a bar owner should have the right to have smoking in his establishment, and the patrons should choose if they want to go there or not. There was really no debate on this issue, and here I totally agree with Slinger. If the owner would like to cater to smokers, why cant he? SHould he not have the right on how to run his business?

I dont want to make you upset Owain, but from your posts you seem very patriotic, and from what i know of you, you are, but it seems that no matter what the government does, you seem to be fully behind it because it is the right thing to do no matter what.

On a side note, there was discussion on travel and then you will see how great america is. That is the most retarded thing i have ever heard in my life.

You go to travel and go see things and learn from it. You go to travel to appreciate different styles of living and to learn different customs and behaviors. I have seen the american armed forces over seas and i have seen how they act, and those are the ones that go and dont learn any customs, and come back and really appreciate what america is and how good it is.

After traveling and living abroad for three years in a country where i had few normal amenities (unlike the armed forces who had american tv, food, anything they wanted) I never once felt more happy with the Canadian government or appreciated that i was Canadian and how great this country was.

Crim, i agree with you on most things, but the commment on go and live abroad and then you will see how great america is was rediculous.

If you want to get into a discussion how american soldiers are assholes overseas, let me know, and will tell you my experiences and why the people where they are stationed do not appreciate them as much as they should.

Actually, I agree with Slinger in many ways, but I was playing devil's advocate to explain why things were the way they were.

An my point on travel making you appreciate what you have was that it was a side effect from having traveled and seen how things are on the other side of the fence. I never meant to imply that it was my primary motivation.