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#145621 - 10/11/18 12:41 PM Re: Is the left eating itself? [Re: Derid]  
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Originally Posted by Sini
In case of Ghomeshi the desirable outcome is to dismiss or mock him, not to attempt to take his voice away. Whatever benefits of deplatforming Ghomeshi are, the can't possibly outweigh grievous harm of enabling and propagating censorship.


So what is your proposed legislative remedy to mandate the exercise of speech in the free market? I would describe this as limiting the speech of the publication. This is what you're asking for, ultimately, which I find far more Orwellian than allowing the market to decide what speech is profitable to promote. For example, why is Ghomeshi's speech entitled to appear in NYRB or any other publication? If his essay was pure dogshit (I know, it's a stretch of imagination), a fantasy of melancholy devoid of any factual statements, why should anyone be mandated to publish it? What's the market circulation requirement, how many publications does it have to appear in to satisfy?

Perhaps you think this goes too far - then is the remedy to limit the speech of his private citizen dissenters? Rate limit their tweets?

I honestly can't think of any solution that would satisfy your objections here, unless objection itself is the end goal, in which case why should your objection mandate any action at all? In the example of reinstatement of the editor, even this tramples on the rights of the publisher to exercise their own speech. I'm not trying to be glib here but I'm left with the conclusion that you're objecting to freedom.


Originally Posted by Sini
More so, with most of the speech moving to digital format you have an issue with corporations like Google, Twitter, and Facebook having the power to effectively silence you. In turn, these corporations can be pressured into censorship.

What is the point of having theoretical free speech rights if it can't be exercised unless you are independently wealthy and powerful?


In a sense, I agree with you here. The danger with those platforms is proportional to their approach to monopoly, and the intersection of the first amendment is along that approach. I think monopoly is the true evil in this case, though, and fortunately (as you demonstrate) they are not quite there yet. I also agree that inequality of wealth is a significant evil behind asymmetric exercise of speech, but especially in regards to political speech.


Originally Posted by Derid
Thomas Paine


Common Sense is an excellent and relevant study of the forces of the market as it applies to speech. At first he had trouble finding any outlet for his views, but eventually he found a publisher willing to take the risk (I assume politically as well as monetarily). Once published though, it found so much political (and market) traction he ended up having to battle the initial publisher over attempting to publish a second edition against his wishes. Thanks to the technology we are currently using, if this were to happen today, his barrier to initial distribution would have been far lower.


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#145622 - 10/12/18 12:04 AM Re: Is the left eating itself? [Re: Sini]  
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So what is my proposed remedy? In case of social media giants it is to regulate them as public spaces. You don't get to pretend it is your living room when you invited entire country in and getting filthy rich charging admission.

In case of Ghomeshi's essay it is along "don't be an idiot" (not directed at anyone here) lines. Criticism of bad ideas. Criticism of people that endorse these bad ideas. Deplatofrming is massively, fundamentally bad idea. Doubly so for anyone involved in journalism. To me the issue is not about actual essay or content, the issue that some people decided that this specific individual has no rights to speak and they are using their power to enforce it. I honestly don't care what Ghomeshi has to say, however I do deeply care that there are some people who are hell-bent of preventing him from saying anything.

Quote
The danger with those platforms is proportional to their approach to monopoly, and the intersection of the first amendment is along that approach. I think monopoly is the true evil in this case, though, and fortunately (as you demonstrate) they are not quite there yet. I also agree that inequality of wealth is a significant evil behind asymmetric exercise of speech, but especially in regards to political speech.


I largely agree with you. However, these social platforms might be a natural monopoly. Like there isn't 'other' Internet, it just does not make sense to have two.


#145623 - 10/13/18 04:26 AM Re: Is the left eating itself? [Re: Sini]  
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rhaikh Online
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Originally Posted by Sini
Criticism of bad ideas. Criticism of people that endorse these bad ideas. Deplatofrming is massively, fundamentally bad idea. Doubly so for anyone involved in journalism.


This is what actually happened. His essay was shit, the editor did a bad job, people complained about both, and the publisher either took that to heart and/or did some envelope calculations and made their decision. Either way the publisher exercised their free speech, and there remains an infinite array of alternatives available to Ghomeshi to continue to spread his shit around.


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