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#145549 - 08/23/18 03:48 AM Re: Is the left eating itself? [Re: rhaikh]  
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Originally Posted by rhaikh
Originally Posted by Sini
I am not on twitter and don't know who this guy is. Had to read wikipedia stub that was linked. Any idea why rhaikh calling him libertarian?


Maybe since you both only chose to read one of the links I provided, you can compare notes.


I looked at the wiki thing, and my point stands. If it wasn't for him being a trolling troll on twitter no one would know or care

Look a bit deeper before making assumptions. If it wasn't for twitterverse, no one would know what he was doing, and even if he showed up at a physical 'protest' he'd be accompanied by maybe 2 people, the pigeons in the park, and maybe a couple motorists who rubbernecked and laughed


For who could be free when every other man's humour might domineer over him? - John Locke (2nd Treatise, sect 57)
#145552 - 08/26/18 01:06 PM Re: Is the left eating itself? [Re: rhaikh]  
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Originally Posted by rhaikh
Originally Posted by Sini
I am not on twitter and don't know who this guy is. Had to read wikipedia stub that was linked. Any idea why rhaikh calling him libertarian?


Maybe since you both only chose to read one of the links I provided, you can compare notes.


Your other link is Twitter. I even asked you to summarize/quote relevant parts, but you threw a fit instead.

So why do you think some random person on twitter is liberterian?


#145566 - 09/04/18 11:57 PM Re: Is the left eating itself? [Re: Sini]  
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http://www.latimes.com/science/sciencenow/la-sci-sn-twitter-partisan-politics-20180831-story.html

Quote


It was a different story for Republicans. Compared to those who did not follow the liberal bot, those who did “exhibited substantially more conservative views” after just one month. The greater the number of liberal tweets the Republicans absorbed, the more conservative they became. These results were statistically significant.

In other words, the experiment backfired.

But Bail and his colleagues from Duke, Brigham Young University and New York University said it’s too soon to give up on the idea that social media can help bridge the partisan divide.


I disagree, it is not too soon to give up on social media. Though well intentioned, these guys are trying to use more cyanide as an antidote to cyanide poisoning. It cant work.


For who could be free when every other man's humour might domineer over him? - John Locke (2nd Treatise, sect 57)
#145571 - 09/14/18 10:32 PM Re: Is the left eating itself? [Re: Sini]  
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It's frankly bizarre that I post a quote from the organizer of Unite the Right and what you guys take away from it is that Twitter is bad.


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#145574 - 09/15/18 01:11 AM Re: Is the left eating itself? [Re: rhaikh]  
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Originally Posted by rhaikh
It's frankly bizarre that I post a quote from the organizer of Unite the Right and what you guys take away from it is that Twitter is bad.

Here's the text of what you quoted, for anyone else who didn't bother to click on a twitter link the first time:

Originally Posted by twitter link
I'm a Classical Liberal, not a fascist. I believe part of what made white civilizations great is our respect for ideals like free speech and individual liberty.

If we descend into Might Makes Right we're no better than your average tribal warlord.

If I understand, and please correct me if I'm off base, your point is that this since person identifies as a Classical Liberal, the question "is the left eating itself" could be applied Classical Liberalism. There's no point in typing out the continuation of that line of thought here, I'm sure everyone can figure it out.

Is that right?

If so, then I would argue Derid already gave a valid response, which you have dismissed as "twitter is bad," and I would be interested in your response.

If not, I sincerely apologize that I've misunderstood your position, and ask that you clarify.

#145576 - 09/16/18 10:06 PM Re: Is the left eating itself? [Re: rhaikh]  
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Originally Posted by rhaikh
It's frankly bizarre that I post a quote from the organizer of Unite the Right and what you guys take away from it is that Twitter is bad.


The only bizzare thing is that some people miss the point of 'twitter is bad' comments - to wit: anyone can say anything, and generally should not be taken as credible until proven otherwise, nor would anyone pay attention to them were it not for twitter giving others someone easy to hate.

"some alt-right guy said something" - so what? Who does he represent? is there reason to believe anything he says matters, that he is telling the truth and not trolling, or even has a clue as to what he is talking about? Or are you just shouting "look here at my straw man!!!" louder and louder? If not, then link the relevancy of whatever alt-right guy to conversation.

If your argument is that the right is also eating itself, well youre making a bad argument and example here - but i'm pretty sure everyone already knew that anyhow. See huge ass Trump thread. The right already ate itself, and then took a messy shit. Would be nice if the left didn't play copycat, but all indications are that it is trying really hard to do so - which frankly wont be good for anyone.

Last edited by Derid; 09/16/18 10:06 PM.

For who could be free when every other man's humour might domineer over him? - John Locke (2nd Treatise, sect 57)
#145578 - 09/17/18 12:27 AM Re: Is the left eating itself? [Re: Sini]  
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Leftist threat to free speech

Quote
Liberals need to be reminded of the origins of their ideology. In 1859, when governments around the world were still deeply repressive — banning books, censoring commentary and throwing people in jail for their beliefs — John Stuart Mill explained in his seminal work, “On Liberty,” that protection against governments was not enough: “There needs protection also against the tyranny of the prevailing opinion and feeling; against the tendency of society to impose . . . its own ideas and practices . . . on those who dissent from them.” This classic defense of free speech, which Supreme Court Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes later called the “freedom for the thought that we hate,” is under pressure in the United States — and from the left.


For who could be free when every other man's humour might domineer over him? - John Locke (2nd Treatise, sect 57)
#145580 - 09/18/18 01:02 AM Re: Is the left eating itself? [Re: Brutal]  
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Originally Posted by Brutal
Originally Posted by rhaikh
It's frankly bizarre that I post a quote from the organizer of Unite the Right and what you guys take away from it is that Twitter is bad.

Here's the text of what you quoted, for anyone else who didn't bother to click on a twitter link the first time:

Originally Posted by twitter link
I'm a Classical Liberal, not a fascist. I believe part of what made white civilizations great is our respect for ideals like free speech and individual liberty.

If we descend into Might Makes Right we're no better than your average tribal warlord.

If I understand, and please correct me if I'm off base, your point is that this since person identifies as a Classical Liberal, the question "is the left eating itself" could be applied Classical Liberalism. There's no point in typing out the continuation of that line of thought here, I'm sure everyone can figure it out.

Is that right?

If so, then I would argue Derid already gave a valid response, which you have dismissed as "twitter is bad," and I would be interested in your response.

If not, I sincerely apologize that I've misunderstood your position, and ask that you clarify.



The more complete of an answer I give on this forum, to basically any question, the more the frequent posters here wish to hijack my opinions into their own realm of displeasure. So in a sense this post of mine you are quoting is my distilled complaint about the other responders. While I understand that social media has had an effect on public discourse, and you could therefore explore that relationship as it applies to any modern political topic, I think that is not at all causal to this particular topic and yet they've managed to spin several pages of essentially tangental spam out of it.

What's far more interesting to me is the parallel between this behavior I've just described amongst this group, and the behavior of the people who are driving this "anti freedom leftist" narrative in the press. These people are spinning whole book tours of tangental spam out of the actions of teenagers at an unknown liberal arts college, taking money from and advancing the ideologies of the likes of Peter Thiel and the Koch brothers on that tenuous justification.

Which continues it's own feedback loop - they then go off on paid promotion tours to places they are likely to see ideological pushback (for good reason - I am quite justified in implementing my email spam filter, for example), and I bet in their five star hotel suite they are praying that some idiot teenager brings an airhorn so they can fund next year's tour.

Incidentally, or intentionally, or both, this creates a monster. Their audience get a feel good rush from reading 12 rules and cleaning your room and all of a sudden they're yelling at Muslims and showing up at Jason Kessler's rally to hear David Duke speak. It's okay, they're just Classical Liberals, not fascists. It's probably because they use twitter.

Anyway, I hope that's clear enough for you. I'm sure some will object to my lack of citation but unlike Evergreen College this place doesn't issue any credits and so my incentive to provide a complete bibliography is low.


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#145581 - 09/18/18 01:13 PM Re: Is the left eating itself? [Re: rhaikh]  
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Quote
...the people who are driving this "anti freedom leftist" narrative in the press.
Are you referring to Faux News, or something else? Honestly I won't presume speak for others in saying what the point of this topic is, but I think that most here would agree that the far right is deplorable. I no longer consider myself a Republican because the politics of the party have strayed too far towards that fringe. My problem is that I can't in good conscience embrace the Democrat problem for much the same reason.

From my perspective, here is what our two parties currently offer:

  • Republicans: thinly veiled or sometimes outright racist views and policies, religious zealotry (and an alarming push towards pseudo-theocracy), and nationalism
  • Democrats: welfare state, censorship, class warfare

Obviously there are others (like government oversight, gun control), but this list encapsulates my greatest fears from both sides.

Over the course of my adult life the left have regressed nearly as far towards the fringe as the right have, leaving me with no good political choices. If there was one political ideal that you could always count on the left to espouse above all others it was the protection of the 1st amendment. These days the left seem far greater enemies of free speech than the right.

Who the fuck am I supposed to choose from this shit show?

#145582 - 09/18/18 10:22 PM Re: Is the left eating itself? [Re: Brutal]  
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Originally Posted by Brutal
These days the left seem far greater enemies of free speech than the right.


According to paid shills complaining about teenagers.


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