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#145322 - 05/17/18 12:00 AM Re: Is the left eating itself? [Re: rhaikh]  
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Originally Posted by rhaikh
That analysis is exactly why I can't debate with you guys. You made it four paragraphs before you stopped listening and started changing the debate.


You can't build a valid argument out of failed premise. When I start with: "Suppose Derid is a lizard person..." everything that follows may still be true, but you no longer have to consider the argument because I don't offer a valid justification for my beliefs. It is possible to believe right things for a wrong reason, but it isn't possible to be justified in doing so.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fruit_of_the_poisonous_tree


#145323 - 05/17/18 12:03 AM Re: Is the left eating itself? [Re: Sini]  
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#145324 - 05/17/18 12:20 AM Re: Is the left eating itself? [Re: Derid]  
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Originally Posted by Derid
Apparently new left tactic is to take much of what they loath about certain elements of the right and copy it.


I wish I could disagree with this.


#145325 - 05/17/18 09:20 AM Re: Is the left eating itself? [Re: Sini]  
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Originally Posted by Sini


First off, I don't buy the parallel between inciting terrorism and the coddling of the right - There are obvious and extreme socioeconomic and geopolitical differences at play amongst the targeted populations, which has been conveniently ignored here.

However, if you accept that it is a valid comparison, then the reverse statement is also true: The right is being hypocritical in their demands for coddling now, when they rejected it then for others.

I agree with Jamelle Bouie's followup to the quoted tweet which is
Quote
and this is granting the claim that there is an epidemic of liberals labeling Americans racist, which is asserted but not actually supported with evidence in this piece.


and therefore disagree with the premise Claire Lehmann presents which is based on direct insult. When those on the right are personally insulted when presented with evidence of racially motivated policy and power derived from bigotry, perhaps it is due to projecting.

Last edited by rhaikh; 05/17/18 09:26 AM.

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#145326 - 05/17/18 05:42 PM Re: Is the left eating itself? [Re: rhaikh]  
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Originally Posted by rhaikh
Originally Posted by Sini


First off, I don't buy the parallel between inciting terrorism and the coddling of the right - There are obvious and extreme socioeconomic and geopolitical differences at play amongst the targeted populations, which has been conveniently ignored here.



I will respond to your previous post when I get some time, but for now - I think its important to realize that principles remain constant even when details change. And the principle at work here is:

Originally Posted by Connor
Indeed, it is the easiest of cases: It merely requires being more rigorous about the truth.


It's really that simple. You cannot lump people together just because it feels good to do so, and expect rational people to fall in line with that. Just because Fox may attempt at various times to pander to both certain elements of the far-right, and elements of the center-right and center, does not mean that they are all the same. It just means that Fox tries to draw in many different markets.


I feel a need to once more quote Confucius:

Quote
If names be not correct, language is not in accordance with the truth of things. If language be not in accordance with the truth of things, affairs cannot be carried on to success. When affairs cannot be carried on to success, proprieties and music do not flourish. When proprieties and music do not flourish, punishments will not be properly awarded. When punishments are not properly awarded, the people do not know how to move hand or foot. Therefore a superior man considers it necessary that the names he uses may be spoken appropriately, and also that what he speaks may be carried out appropriately.


What Confucius was referring to was precisely rigor in applying labels, specifically social labels. To wit: if you allow your language and thinking to become muddled and inaccurate, chaos ensues and things go to shit.

No matter how strongly someone feels about some particular issue or how much they loathe people who hold different positions than themselves, in the long run no good will come from trying to achieve your ends by invoking logical fallacies to justify misusing labels.


For who could be free when every other man's humour might domineer over him? - John Locke (2nd Treatise, sect 57)
#145332 - 05/22/18 09:49 PM Re: Is the left eating itself? [Re: Derid]  
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Originally Posted by Derid
It's really that simple. You cannot lump people together just because it feels good to do so


Both Derid and rhaikh are two crazy homeless people shouting at each about racism. I won't listen to anything any crazy person have to say, because they are often wrong.


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