The KGB Oracle Forums General Public Discussion (SPECIAL ACCESS) KGB Political Debate Central Is the left eating itself?

2. Diversity is not a universal good

When you look around and see the myriad effects of racism around you, do you start to wonder where all the klan hoods must be hiding for the number of Actual Racists necessary to perpetuate this situation? No, obviously. Racism is more than bigotry, it's institutionalized. This is the claim I'm making, that the GOP as a whole is the largest contributor to the perpetuation of racism (institutionally and therefore individually) in America today, and in large part because of the facts of history. Since the Civil Rights Act it has been empowered through overt racism, empowerment it continues to enjoy today and which has permanently shaped its platform.* Therefore it is relevant to discuss GOP policy through the lens of racism, and proponents of its policy should accept this perception and affirm it and make all reasonable guarantees to ease that perception, rather than become indignant and deny reality.

To say that this would do more harm than good by offending the sensibilities of Not Quite Actual Racists, I disagree. We cannot move past institutional racism without acknowledging its existence and causes, and neither is it acceptable to live with institutional racism and hoping it goes away on its own, since it never has.

To say that some Democrats have done their own work perpetuating racism, obviously I agree. I also agree that the party has done significant damage to our democracy by being complicit in the plutocracy and oligarchy of the two party system, especially since the Clintons, and through this have done their own share of perpetuating institutional racism by preventing real progressive remedies from emerging. However, as an organization, they are simply not comparable to the GOP to the degree of which overt racism contributes to their policies.

This is clear just by looking at the GOP's platform. They mention race and racism exactly twice, once to say they "denounce it," and another one to take credit for the policies of Abraham Lincoln. https://prod-cdn-static.gop.com/static/home/data/platform.pdf They pay some lip service to discrimination, but half the time it's in a way which dilutes the meaning completely, i.e. trying to equate it with abortion.

The Dems platform, to their credit, does talk about criminal justice reform, the wealth gap, and education all in a context of race. https://www.democrats.org/party-platform

So yes, clearly the Dems have a political advantage here by making institutional racism an issue, but that is insultingly far from the reason of doing so. The reason for making it an issue is that it remains to be an issue. The advantage they could gain from it is constructing a pathway for enlightening opponents about the detrimental effects of ignoring it, a pathway which ideally would lead them to progressive policy. I think the Clinton campaign specifically completely failed to use this advantage. The basket of deplorables was literally a demolition of that pathway, a shortsighted rejection of this advantage.

This leads me into my opinions about what the left should do with the concepts of identity politics and freedom of speech, but frankly I'm out of quarters to continue the conversation - I am stuck on this first level having made no progress and I fail to envision a scenario where I present new ideas and you two don't immediately try to lead me in new tangental directions. again.

*: Also out of quarters for providing you with the entire modern history of the republican party, sorry, also Broken window policy in NYC was Giuliani's platform

The key problem I have with this is that such claim is not falsifable. I could substitute satanism into any modern claim and have it be superficially as valid.



Institutional racism traditionally defined as a government's action against certain race. For example, Internment of Japanese Americans during WW2.

Today, the meaning of 'Institutional racism' is quite different. It is defined as unseen biases that lead to any and all problem that minorities experience. Somehow, without any kind of clear explanation as to why, institutional racism doesn't impact people of Chinese and Indian ancestry. The claims of institutional racism are almost always paired with calls for restitution, compensation, or affirmative action.

Racism certainly exists in our society. Racist people are very obviously racist and some of them are card-carrying GOP members. Attributing racism to everyone else, and further attributing it to unconscious biases within large and diverse group of people is just bullshit artistry. Just like it is a complete bullshit to call entire GOP racist, no matter what post modernist concept you use in attempt to justify your bullshit. It is still bullshit. You are wrong, and despite thinking that you are helping, you are not.

It's called a discussion, and expecting people to swallow your premise without comment would be silly.

I never said that broken window policing didn't originate with Giuliani, I said NYC was a liberal/Dem stronghold, which it is. Was highlighting a case of "do as I say, not as I do." One of the issues with the left, is it is the social group of Weinstein, both figuratively and literally. And yes, before anyone mentions it, the GOP is also the party of Hastert - figuratively and literally. That is, rampant hypocrisy.

Policies continue past Giuliani btw, even to this day. De Blasio, to his credit, seems to have attempted headway on some of these issues - but runs into quite the institutional opposition from what I recall.

But to be real, retreating to actual written party platform kind of shows how weak you premise actually is - because everyone knows that the 'official' platform doesn't actually matter. What Sini referenced earlier about party platforms was remarking about the real platform - what they actually do when in power. Both parties, for example, claim to want better education and jobs. However, despite both parties having windows where they fully controlled govt, neither party made great efforts in those directions, and instead focus on score-settling and wedge-driving. You can clearly see what a party's real platform is when they control Oval Office and both houses of Congress.

Also, please bear in mind that the issue here is specifically calling all GOP racists while merely finger-wagging bad actors closer to your ideological spectrum. Were you simply claiming that the Democrats are somewhat better on issues of race, well, their additional lip-service on the topic might well justify that. I just find it hard to believe that paying verbal homage to race, as you previously suggested, would have any positive impact. In the mouths of politicians, words are usually just words. Largely, because it is well known that memories are short and politics is a game of "what have you done for me lately." Fundamentally, politicians sell promises, not results. Wedge issues are no accident on either side, nor is lack of real progress on issues.

If Democrats actually solved minority issues, then before long, there wouldn't be any reason for minorities to vote for them. Thus, we see introducing of new wedge issues, as opposed to solid policy improvements.

BTW, for what its worth, I'll be the first to decry the GOP's similar tactics. We see just how important deficit reduction really is to them, for example, when they have power. That is, they open govt spigot and spend like madmen - without forgetting to embark on some score-settling with perceived Democrat allies in the process, when it comes to cuts.

While it is possible to disagree with the above position, it would be a justifiable opinion to hold.

What isn't justifiable is rhaikh position:

a. GOP is intrinsically racist organization and that makes every GOP member a racist
b. Calling out actual racism, things that contribute to racism, things that may contribute to racism, and things that the racist party advocates is necessary to improve our society's racial relations

I am all but certain you will call me racist for pointing this out, but why do you assume that every ill is a result of racism? Could it be the case that some of it is self-inflicted? Also why only some visible minorities experience these ill effects? Why is systemic racism only applies to African-american, but not to Jews? Supremacists are violently anti-Jew, yet Jew population in America is more prosperous than even White.

I never said every Republican is racist. This is why I'm done with the discussion.

My worthless, low effort contribution to the discussion.

So what is your position then? Could you restate it in clearer terms so it is possible for us to better understand it?

By the way, these are mutually exclusive.