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#14294 - 01/03/07 04:01 PM Re: Saddam Hanging Video [Re: Arcain]  
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Crimthan Offline
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Quote:

and before anyone even attempts to dispute that here are some pics my friend took while over there.





I find it funny how they use some of the building supplies for shelter to make the guns for the kids lol




I like this. Or at least, require everyone straight out of high school who is physically/mentally capable to spend 2 years in the military. Along with that, be taught mandatory Advanced Humanities and the basics of Ethics. Seriously, the heartland of America is way too soft and good old principles such as self-discipine and honor are nearly dead. 911 never would have happened like it did, (let alone many other incidents)if every American was educated in Self-Defense and basic fighting skills. Not to mention that Americans would then probably have more patriotism and drive to succeed.

And, a precursor: Dispute that to me all day long if you want, I'll never change my stance on that idea. I've experienced way too much throughout the world and in America to believe otherwise.


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#14295 - 01/03/07 08:17 PM Re: Something to ponder [Re: Lenny]  
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Bishop Offline
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Quote:

Re: Something to ponder



Its true Saddam did control Iraq; of course he did it with totalitarianism. It will be interesting to see if Democracy ever holds in Iraq and if the three populations can come together in one country. But I think it’s very possible and I wouldn’t sell democracy short.
Even if the chaos lasted 100 years, it would be worth it for the next generations for 500 years.
As far as hanging GB I don’t see any real logic in that. There was no way to know when Saddam would use WMD. He also openly supported terrorism against our country. I would say we had the right to go in. As we do with Iran. With Iran though, it would be extremely difficult to take care of with out international support.
I keep an optimistic look on the future of Iraq, and I definitely feel it was worth trying, and it had to happen eventually. I really don’t believe Iraq would have ever overthrown Saddam until he died and probably not even then. Fact is we fed Saddam weapons for the sake of a short term solution that helped every one at the time. It only seems right that we come back and fix the abuse we helped support.


#14296 - 01/03/07 09:55 PM Re: Something to ponder [Re: Bishop]  
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Slinger Offline
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Quote:

There was no way to know when Saddam would use WMD.




Weapons of mass destruction... We're using those right now, only the one we're using is far less efficient than the ones we're referring to. We're using our military, and it's doing massive destruction. It's a funny term, then, "weapons of mass destruction."


#14297 - 01/03/07 10:32 PM Re: Something to ponder [Re: Slinger]  
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Lenny Offline
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The whole point of this arguement was the fact that Saddam was responsible for the death of thousands of people, so he should be hung. I still dont believe that the court case was independent from outside pressures (that is was judged based on Iraqi principles). Now, George W is responsible for a lot of death, and my point is, not much different than Saddam.

Your point about democracy, it is a western democracy. How many countries over there has ever had any democracy. I bet if you talk to people that were from Iraq, and ask them if this is worth it, I can guess that the majority would say no.

By no means to I believe that Saddam was right in what he did. The problem that I have with it, is that there are much bigger issues out there right now. Look at north Korea, how many people have died there, but George W just wants to starve them into democracy. There are more injustices going on in NK.

Please dont think that I am saying this because i am Canadian, I do believe that Canada should have supported this war as well as every other nation in the world. All the problems would have ended a long time ago if there were more troops there and the whole place was on lock down. There should have been more support from the neighbors, if there were, the US troops would have left and things would be better. Just my opinion


#14298 - 01/04/07 12:32 AM Re: Something to ponder [Re: Slinger]  
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Quote:

There was no way to know when Saddam would use WMD.




Violence in self defense is justified. It's not perfect but thats the world we live in. And its the way the world has been forever.


#14299 - 01/04/07 01:03 AM Re: Saddam Hanging Video [Re: Crimthan]  
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crim they aren't just practicing for discipline, they are doing this because they will soon need to pick up a real rifle and learn to shoot at real people. I am all for discipline but you dont need pre teens holding guns trying to kill people

#14300 - 01/04/07 05:05 AM Re: Saddam Hanging Video [Re: Arcain]  
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Crimthan Offline
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Quote:

crim they aren't just practicing for discipline, they are doing this because they will soon need to pick up a real rifle and learn to shoot at real people. I am all for discipline but you dont need pre teens holding guns trying to kill people




Of course not - that's why I mentioned Advanced Humanities (wide ranging philosophy) and Ethics to go along with self defense and/or military education. Teaching undeveloped, unsophisticated, and hormonally imbalanced kids to kill on command is foolish. Teaching them the value of various philsophical teachings mingled with ethics; and to defend themselves, family, and why/where/when to do so is beyond acceptable to me - it should be mandatory.


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#14301 - 01/04/07 03:00 PM Re: Saddam Hanging Video [Re: Crimthan]  
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Lenny Offline
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Crim, watch blooddiamond.


#14302 - 01/08/07 05:42 AM Re: Something to ponder [Re: Lenny]  
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Yep.

Saddam was perhaps responsible for the deaths of many, many people during his reign. However, many leaders of many countries are responsible for the very same thing. Including our own. The world is a very hypocritical place apparently.

Funny thing is, we put Saddam into power to begin with. Apparently we even gave Saddam a list of folks he could start removing.

"In 1963, a CIA-organized coup did successfully assassinate Qasim and Saddam's Ba'ath Party came to power for the first time. Saddam returned from exile in Egypt and took up the key post as head of Iraq's secret service. The CIA then provided the new pliant, Iraqi regime with the names of thousands of communists, and other leftist activists and organizers. Thousands of these supporters of Qasim and his policies were soon dead in a rampage of mass murder carried out by the CIA's close friends in Iraq."

Sure we hung the right guy still ? :|


I saw the video. The first thought that came to mind was what did his death truly accomplish ? If anything, the video has given the region yet another excuse to keep killing each other. Ok, Saddam's now gone. Ask yourself this: Is Iraq a safer place today because of it ?

The reasoning behind this all was OMG he's trying to get nukes ! Yeah, show me a country in the region that ISN'T.


Iran is MUCH further along in their nuclear development than Iraq ever was, yet we haven't gone in there yet. Iran is also a bigger threat to the region since they seem to be on the tirade of ' Let's obliterate Israel '.

What will be interesting to watch is when Israel finally gets tired of Iran poking them with the stick. Poke a dog long enough and eventually they're going to bite the @&%# out of you.

Since Iran has placed their nuclear facilities within cities , there's going to be a LOT of collateral damage when Israel finally does take action.

We're not done with this mess by a long shot methinks. . .


-Daye

#14303 - 01/08/07 08:37 AM Re: Something to ponder [Re: Daye]  
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The American government has a history of "helping" out people that end up causing huge amounts of trouble.

They donated money to Hitlers rising political party. They gave money and weapons to Osama years before either one of the trade center bombings. They gave money and support to Saddam and I am sure other communist dictators all over the world. They have a history of having the wool pulled over their eyes until something drastic happens in return. I have stated before I dont like this war I think we got into based on lies and should have waited. I support our troops over there I write letters and emails. But, in defense of America, WE did not hang Saddam. In fact, he never got an official United Nations trial based on his crimes. He was tried by the Iraq people and hung by them before anyone else could throw their stick in. Saddam requested to be shot to death, because his religion states that if you are hung your soul cannot escape your body and you are stuck in it for all eternity. No tons of virgins waiting at Allah's gates. They denied him this request to punish him further.
The American government does nothing about Iran because we are "allied" with them apparently. All we do is tell them to play nice with Israel and then turn our backs when they dont. So they throw money and support at them too until they become too cheeky and then we will end up invading and blowing them up as well.

I am glad Saddam is dead. He was a very bad person and he deserved the punishment his government gave him. But all this takes the focus off of what really started ALL of this. Those two towers in New York and the plane into the Pentagon and Flight 93. Through this whole "war" the press has asked repeatedly, "yeah great you got Saddam you brought him down cool, but what about Osama?" And you know what Bush does? He changes the subject or goes to another question. Why don't we quit debate over the right and wrongs of THIS guy being hung and start asking questions about the real issue at hand. Where the hell is Osama and why haven't they picked him up yet? He is MORE dangerous to the citizens of the US right now then any other force out there! Bad combination of millions of dollars, american weapons information and a big grudge. Goodbye Saddam you were an egotistical, sick minded, eccentrical, greedy bastard and I hope you enjoy living in your rotting corpse. Nuff of that lets go find Osama.


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