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#141744 - 09/22/17 06:22 PM Re: Trump card [Re: Sini]  
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Sethan Offline
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America woke to a miracle this morning.
Blacks suddenly all had comfortable, middle-class existences.
Crime has plummeted, and economic equality has been achieved.
All racism and prejudice appears to have ended.
Experts believe the cause of this miracle may be the destruction of a 93 year old bronze monument commemorating Robert E Lee, which was personally keeping the entire black race down.
World peace is expected to be achieved next once the Ulysses Grant statue is destroyed, and some experts believe cancer cured by removing the Lincoln Memorial.

Last edited by Sethan; 09/22/17 06:31 PM.
#141745 - 09/22/17 06:25 PM Re: Trump card [Re: Sini]  
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"The problem isn't that Johnny can't read. The problem isn't even that Johnny can't think. The problem is that Johnny doesn't know what thinking is; he confuses it with feeling."

Thomas Sowell


The culture war generals will pick a new target to become outraged with in a few months and no one will care about Civil War statues again. I just laugh at them and go on about my day.




Last edited by Sethan; 09/22/17 06:36 PM.
#141747 - 09/23/17 02:10 PM Re: Trump card [Re: Donkleaps]  
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Originally Posted by Donkleaps
It's pretty simple to me.

Soldier memorials in public owned areas should remain. Statues should be moved to museums or private land. Easy work around...(this was in national news a while back and is from the town I went to school in) http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friend...-tiny-portion-of-land-to-a-local-church/

So with this, you will get to see if the outrage over the statues is actually over them being on public land, or if it really is a different agenda. The racism accusations have no bearing on anything to do with the statues directly.



Interesting perspective, I had not heard that one. It would be reasonable and certainly lessen the crazy that has erupted over this. Well stated Donk.


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#141756 - 09/26/17 04:46 AM Re: Trump card [Re: Donkleaps]  
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Originally Posted by Donkleaps
It's pretty simple to me.

Soldier memorials in public owned areas should remain. Statues should be moved to museums or private land. Easy work around...(this was in national news a while back and is from the town I went to school in) http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friend...-tiny-portion-of-land-to-a-local-church/

So with this, you will get to see if the outrage over the statues is actually over them being on public land, or if it really is a different agenda. The racism accusations have no bearing on anything to do with the statues directly.



Advocating for this type of solution is exactly on par with the entire racist history of these statues. The people who really want them to stay up take off their hoods and put on a United Daughters of the Confederacy badge, the mayor's sash, and the president's twitter account and justify their necessity with a 20x20 parcel of bullshit.


#141769 - 09/27/17 04:53 PM Re: Trump card [Re: rhaikh]  
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Listen, I know this forum is designed to spark debate, and we often get passionate about our stance or opinion. But I hope I speak for the majority here when I say that stooping to a level where you outright insinuate that people who disagree with you are members of a hate group is crossing the line. I have no dog in this hunt, don't care one way or the other, but please try to refrain from ad hominem attacks.

Last edited by Brutal; 09/27/17 04:54 PM.
#141770 - 09/28/17 01:22 AM Re: Trump card [Re: Sini]  
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If this needs clarification then I'll provide it. I don't think any of you are actually nazis, but I do think these positions in this debate are the same as those held by actual nazis, and I am disturbed by that.


#141771 - 09/28/17 01:25 AM Re: Trump card [Re: Sini]  
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Brutal, while I appreciate your kind words, this isn't my first rodeo and this isn't the first rodeo clown I had to deal with. Unlike Rhaikh's usual Facbook and Twitter echo chamber that he is accustomed to operate in, people here, while disagree on many things, can usually see through such blatant bullshit. As such, the longer Rhaikh herps the derp, the less credibility he has. So far he herped all of it.


#141772 - 09/28/17 01:34 AM Re: Trump card [Re: rhaikh]  
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Originally Posted by rhaikh
If this needs clarification then I'll provide it. I don't think any of you are actually nazis, but I do think these positions in this debate are the same as those held by actual nazis, and I am disturbed by that.


The only disturbing position in this argument is your disregard for analytical thinking and unthinking support of your dogma. I have asked you a number of times to justify your position. You failed to do so, instead you attempted to shame without first establishing moral authority to do so. More so, your bad faith arguments demonstrate that you have no moral authority on this subject and should be disregarded either as a dishonest person with an agenda or unthinking simpleton. I am not yet convinced that you are dishonest person. In that line...

I asked you previously where you draw a line in these events. Many ANTIFA members were filmed engaging in attacks on journalist, exercising hecklers veto to suppress speakers in public places like campuses, and destruction of property other than statues in question. Do you believe that their stated goals justify the means? Do you believe that these stated goals and actual goals align?

When Trump stated that both sides should be condemned for initiating violence, do you believe him to be categorically wrong?


#141777 - 09/28/17 08:54 AM Re: Trump card [Re: Sini]  
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rhaikh Offline
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Originally Posted by Sini
dogma


I wholly reject that I have not already laid out this argument in this thread, which is why I've been continually ignoring you saying that I have, but for sake of reference I will do so one more time.

The statues were put up by essentially Klansmen, in direct response to the events in the United States years AFTER the civil war and leading up to and after the Civil Rights Movement, and in whole or in part to signal that the communities they reside in stand for the ideology of white supremacy and white nationalism. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_Cause_of_the_Confederacy

Nazis today wish to maintain the status quo, to further their own cause of white nationalism.

Besides blatant racism, spurious dog-whistle arguments about the historical value of these statues are being uses by Nazis and others to maintain the status quo.

Aside from being disingenuous, these arguments are demonstrably false because history books and museums will continue to exist among other incredibly obvious reasons. At bare minimum, in my opinion, these statues should be interpreted and contextualized and not allowed to continue their romanticization of the culture of slavery unchecked.

By supporting these arguments and rejecting their clear purpose, you are therefore de facto, in action if not in spirit, supporting the cause of white nationalism.

You also continually suggest that I have not given justification as to the necessity for the statues to be removed. Aside from the fact that it opposes nazis, I think it's clear that having symbols of racism and oppression prominently featured on government lands and in public spaces serves as an unnecessary reminder to African Americans of the lengths to which our culture and society still need to go to truly accept them. Additionally they serve as false signals to white people that racism is normal, which when combined with all other sources of normalization, contributes to the perpetuation of racism and systemic oppression.

No, removing the statues will not solve all of the worlds problems. Yes, there are other problems to concern yourselves with, in addition to this one. This is just one step along a generational journey of tolerance. A step you are opposing to no fruitful benefit.

Quote

Consider these four monuments from the perspective of an African American mother or father trying to explain to their fifth-grade daughter who Robert E. Lee is and why he stands atop of our beautiful city. Can you do it?

Can you look into that young girl’s eyes and convince her that Robert E. Lee is there to encourage her? Do you think she will feel inspired and hopeful by that story? Do these monuments help her see a future with limitless potential?

Have you ever thought that if her potential is limited, yours and mine are too? We all know the answer to these very simple questions. When you look into this child's eyes is the moment when the searing truth comes into focus for us. This is the moment when we know what is right and what we must do. We can't walk away from this truth.

Mayor of New Orleans Mitch Landrieu


https://theoutline.com/post/2182/after-the-statues-fall


Originally Posted by Sini
I asked you previously

I have no interest in debating other topics in part due to what I observe as lack of engagement on my core argument.


#141778 - 09/28/17 01:16 PM Re: Trump card [Re: Sini]  
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I thought almost everyone agreed that the Civil War was about much more than slavery, so knowing that why is Robert E. Lee a symbol of racism?

That you think there is a status quo southern communities in mass are trying to maintain is just stupid honestly and speaks more to your bias.

Who in goods name does this "to continue their romanticization of the culture of slavery unchecked." besides the extreme groups we all know like the KKK.

Slavery bad... I think we get it. These statues are just the latest cause of the day to be offended by, just wait a couple weeks it will be old news and there will be some other cause of the week keeping down some group in America. Everyone is always looking for someone to blame besides themselves.

This just in... hard work and good choices will get you ahead in life, you are not entitled to anything but you can improve your situation. That is all anyone can really ask for.

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