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#141054 - 07/21/17 04:13 PM Re: Trump card [Re: Owain]  
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Originally Posted by Owain
Since Mueller has disqualifying conflicts of interest and has overstepped his mandate, that is appropriate.


LOL

That's all that can really even be said about that.

Mueller: "We need to look at the money trail, like every other major investigation"

Trump: "Don't look at my money, that's outside the scope! Outside the scope! You're fired!"

People with a lick of sense: "Impeach! Impeach!"


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#141058 - 07/21/17 04:36 PM Re: Trump card [Re: Sini]  
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I know many people to whom this applies.

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Last edited by Owain; 07/21/17 04:37 PM.

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#141072 - 07/23/17 05:56 PM Re: Trump card [Re: Sini]  
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Originally Posted by Owain
Depends upon your definition of collusion. So far, I have seen nothing even remotely illegal.


So turns out, according to Owain, interfering with Mueller's investigation is not sufficent grounds for impeachment.

What about firing Mueller? Would that be sufficient? What about firing of Mueller's replacement? How many fired investigators would it take for you to concede obstruction of justice is happening?


#141084 - 07/24/17 11:58 PM Re: Trump card [Re: Sini]  
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It would depend why he was being fired. Exceeding his authority would be a good reason.

Why don't we wait for someone to fired before hurling ourselves out windows, m'kay?


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#141085 - 07/25/17 12:20 AM Re: Trump card [Re: Sini]  
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My premise is that you will excuse Trump no matter what. The good way to demonstrate this is to get you to commit to self-defined red line only to see you rationalize it anyways. Tricky part is to predict events prior to them happening. I expect Mueller and his replacement to both be fired. Therefore I am asking you to comment on this a priori while you are still could be objective about hypotheticals and not yet defensive due to excessive emotional buy-in.


#141086 - 07/25/17 03:58 AM Re: Trump card [Re: Sini]  
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My premise is that I will continue to support the President until there is evidence to suggest that support is not justified. Democratic butthurt and liberal conspiracy theories are insufficient justification.

Last edited by Owain; 07/25/17 02:19 PM.

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#141088 - 07/25/17 11:33 AM Re: Trump card [Re: Sini]  
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Originally Posted by Sini
My premise is that you will excuse Trump no matter what. The good way to demonstrate this is to get you to commit to self-defined red line only to see you rationalize it anyways. Tricky part is to predict events prior to them happening. I expect Mueller and his replacement to both be fired. Therefore I am asking you to comment on this a priori while you are still could be objective about hypotheticals and not yet defensive due to excessive emotional buy-in.



The only premise here is that Trump should be impeached even when there is no evidence supporting the idea. The tricky part is to predict wrong doing on hear-say and hopefulness. Therefore I am asking you to comment on this priority while you could be objective about hypothetical's and not yet defensive due to emotional buy-in.


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#141089 - 07/25/17 08:36 PM Re: Trump card [Re: Helemoto]  
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It's fine to support the President until such time as he proves himself unsupportable. To even state that means that you already have some idea of what would qualify as crossing the line. Unless you are just trying to be contrary then you should be able to state what that line is. By doing so you can both clearly explain your position to everyone else, while at the same time proving that you aren't moving the goal post. Otherwise, you make yourself out to be a blind supporter, in which case it makes no difference to me which side of the aisle you sit on, you are worse than useless.

Disclaimer: I have largely avoided this discussion because I am 1) not a Republican, 2) not a Democrat, and 3) not butthurt one way or another over this past election. In my opinion, there really wasn't a winning option.

#141090 - 07/25/17 09:22 PM Re: Trump card [Re: Sini]  
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I've stated that many times. Actual violation of the law, for which there is no evidence, would be required.

Democrats clutching their pearls is not enough.


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#141092 - 07/26/17 01:04 AM Re: Trump card [Re: Owain]  
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Originally Posted by Owain
I've stated that many times. Actual violation of the law, for which [presently] there is no evidence, would be required.


Thank you. Can you further clarify this? What kind of law? Would violation of tax code count? Criminal law? Contract law? Misdemeanor? Jaywalking?

As to violation, is this on balance of probabilities, indictment, public opinion or do you require actual trial and conviction (which is beyond reasonable doubt for criminal wrongdoing)? Keep in mind, Nixon was indited but not convicted.


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