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#140147 - 04/08/17 01:50 PM Re: Trump card [Re: Wolfgang]  
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Interesting, so Trump bombs Assad, in contradiction of his campaign promises, and all you can think of is how to blame Obama?

Not that I disagree with you that Obama's approach to middle east was incompetent, but now this is Trump's quagmire multi-Billion war in the Middle East to loose and this specific issue is of his own creation.


#140148 - 04/08/17 01:58 PM Re: Trump card [Re: Sini]  
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I am more cynical. I think using cruise missiles on Assad was collaborative effort with Russia. Putin lost control of Assad and this is a step to bring him back in line. You might think poorly about Russians, but chemical weapon use is a big No-No for them. Russians finished decommissioning their own arsenal in 2016.

Why I think this was coordinated with Putin. First, Russians were given advanced warning and they chose not to activate AA defenses. Second, US used old missiles that were likely to be replaced by new tech. Third, Assad embarrassed Russians who guaranteed his compliance in 2013.


#140149 - 04/08/17 06:38 PM Re: Trump card [Re: Sini]  
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Originally Posted by Sini
Interesting, so Trump bombs Assad, in contradiction of his campaign promises, and all you can think of is how to blame Obama?

Not that I disagree with you that Obama's approach to middle east was incompetent, but now this is Trump's quagmire multi-Billion war in the Middle East to loose and this specific issue is of his own creation.

Yes he contradicted himself, but that was before Assad gassed people. You have to be a fucking fool to sit back and do nothing at this point. He would be another laughing stock of the World If he sat back and did nothing. Then again according the Obama administration they removed all the Chemical weapons, based on that you would have a different view of Syria.

#140150 - 04/08/17 06:54 PM Re: Trump card [Re: Sini]  
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Originally Posted by Sini
I am more cynical. I think using cruise missiles on Assad was collaborative effort with Russia. Putin lost control of Assad and this is a step to bring him back in line. You might think poorly about Russians, but chemical weapon use is a big No-No for them. Russians finished decommissioning their own arsenal in 2016.

Why I think this was coordinated with Putin. First, Russians were given advanced warning and they chose not to activate AA defenses. Second, US used old missiles that were likely to be replaced by new tech. Third, Assad embarrassed Russians who guaranteed his compliance in 2013.

Russia was supposed to be the Guarantor of the removal of the Chemical Weapons. This again is a stain on them and to believe Russia has destroyed their whole stock pile is naive. I bet North Korea doesn't have any Nukes either... nor is Iran trying to get a Nuke. I have 4 guns but you will only see 2 can you find the other two? I'm gonna bet that's a no because I don't want anyone to find them but me... see how that works? You think a countries will simply give them up with no Guarantee . We already have the answer from Syria with the gas attack.


Last edited by Wolfgang; 04/08/17 06:55 PM.
#140151 - 04/08/17 07:11 PM Re: Trump card [Re: Sini]  
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First, the evidence that Assad actually gassed people is extremely weak at best. More likely is the Sauds and Qataris funneled more chem weapons to ISIS, which then leaked out during combat due to bad handling. Parse the news reports closely for actual verified facts instead of opinions treated as facts, and you will quickly find that the whole incident has basically been twisted beyond recognition due to the wishes of some major media houses to push clickbait and foment war.

Second, even if he did - so what? Like what, 50 people died? Terrible to be sure, but a drop in the bucket. The ISIS forces that Trump is now supporting have killed an awful lot more Christians than that, and raped orders of magnitudes more. Heck, the US itself seems to have accidentally killed four times as many civilians in an airstrike just a couple weeks ago.

Third, there is no thought that Assad poses any threat to us. None. Zilch. Zero. For a President to make war without Congressional approval is unconstitutional, unless they are responding to some imminent threat or circumstance.

Sure, Assad is a bad, terrible person, yadda yadda. So what. While we certainly sure shouldnt support him, theres also no good reason to become ISIS's air force either.


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#140152 - 04/08/17 07:36 PM Re: Trump card [Re: Wolfgang]  
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Originally Posted by Wolfgang
Originally Posted by Sini
Interesting, so Trump bombs Assad, in contradiction of his campaign promises, and all you can think of is how to blame Obama?

Not that I disagree with you that Obama's approach to middle east was incompetent, but now this is Trump's quagmire multi-Billion war in the Middle East to loose and this specific issue is of his own creation.

Yes he contradicted himself, but that was before Assad gassed people. You have to be a fucking fool to sit back and do nothing at this point. He would be another laughing stock of the World If he sat back and did nothing. Then again according the Obama administration they removed all the Chemical weapons, based on that you would have a different view of Syria.



Did Assad gas any Americans? Don't think so. So this is not our problem and if anyone else disagrees they can pay for their own quagmire in the middle east.

Think of it this way. We can spend couple bil removing Assad from power, then spend many more bils trying to stabilize the country. OR . We could have free health care. OR . We could finance mission to Mars.


#140157 - 04/08/17 09:07 PM Re: Trump card [Re: Sini]  
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It is in our national interest to discourage the use and spread of chemical weapons, not only in the middle east, but anywhere.


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#140159 - 04/08/17 09:44 PM Re: Trump card [Re: Owain]  
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Originally Posted by Owain
It is in our national interest to discourage the use and spread of chemical weapons, not only in the middle east, but anywhere.

Bullshit.

Nukes strapped to ICBMs? Sure. Chemical weapons ocean away? Not our business and not that damaging to us what little terrorists could smuggle.


#140160 - 04/08/17 10:00 PM Re: Trump card [Re: Sini]  
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Well, that's not your call to make, but it is the call made by President Trump. That is why we have elections, to sort these things out, and Trump is the man elected for the job.

Last edited by Owain; 04/08/17 10:03 PM.

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#140161 - 04/08/17 10:11 PM Re: Trump card [Re: Sini]  
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Originally Posted by Sini
Originally Posted by Wolfgang
Originally Posted by Sini
Interesting, so Trump bombs Assad, in contradiction of his campaign promises, and all you can think of is how to blame Obama?

Not that I disagree with you that Obama's approach to middle east was incompetent, but now this is Trump's quagmire multi-Billion war in the Middle East to loose and this specific issue is of his own creation.

Yes he contradicted himself, but that was before Assad gassed people. You have to be a fucking fool to sit back and do nothing at this point. He would be another laughing stock of the World If he sat back and did nothing. Then again according the Obama administration they removed all the Chemical weapons, based on that you would have a different view of Syria.



Did Assad gas any Americans? Don't think so. So this is not our problem and if anyone else disagrees they can pay for their own quagmire in the middle east.

Think of it this way. We can spend couple bil removing Assad from power, then spend many more bils trying to stabilize the country. OR . We could have free health care. OR . We could finance mission to Mars.

LOL mission to Mars... that will improve things here immensely.

If Assad truly didn't gas those people they need to start laying out the evidence. All of it, Russia was supposed to be part of the mechanism to get rid of them. So far have not seen SQUAT on evidence. If I were them and I didn't do it I would be tripping over myself trying to put the evidence out there. If they don't then It would be apparent they did gas their own. I agree it's not like they are at our back door... at least yet. Though if they did somehow get some into Mexico that border is pretty goddamn leaky and it wouldn't take but one time for them to get it right and kill people. But hey fuck that let's go to Mars.

If Trump did nothing you and every liberal/Progressive in the land would be screaming as to why he didn't do it. It's dammed if you do dammed if you don't. I don't think we should send more troops in that are already there. I believe they still can get this thing taken care of Politically.
Your still missing the other point... If the Obama administration did the job they CLAIMED to have done there would be no Chemical Weapons there.


Last edited by Wolfgang; 04/08/17 10:21 PM.
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