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#132405 - 09/05/15 11:11 PM Friedersdorf nails it again  
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http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/arch...too-far/403477/

Kinda funny, I used to argue the exact same point back in Uni.


For who could be free when every other man's humour might domineer over him? - John Locke (2nd Treatise, sect 57)
#132414 - 09/06/15 03:54 AM Re: Friedersdorf nails it again [Re: Derid]  
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Lets hope eventual and inevitable blowback won't go all the way to lynchings in the South. This was especially good point:
"But isnít it more naive to imagine that masses of white people will identify more strongly with their racial tribe and then sacrifice the interests of that tribe?"

----

One of the links in the article is specially cringe-worthy:
http://amptoons.com/blog/files/mcintosh.html
"35. I can take a job with an affirmative action employer without having my co-workers on the job suspect that I got it because of my race."

facepalm

Also Derid, check your non-idiot privilege and don't post this wrongthink here.


#132422 - 09/07/15 04:44 AM Re: Friedersdorf nails it again [Re: Derid]  
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Move along. Nothing to see here. There's certainly no way that Derid's point, combined with this sort of rhetoric will have any negative repercussions from folks who act before they think.


This guy has a blog and radio show supporting #blacklivesmatter


These folks are actually being escorted by the evil police while chanting...

By the way, there was never any violence associated with all the "violent rhetoric" from the Tea Party. This rhetoric is arguably at the center of the recent rash of police murders/assassinations. Where's the outrage? Hell, for that matter, where is the reporting on any of this?


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#132425 - 09/07/15 06:03 AM Re: Friedersdorf nails it again [Re: Derid]  
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Maybe its because I'm just tired as all hell, but I am kind of lost. Please enlighten, because it feels like we are talking about completely different things.


For who could be free when every other man's humour might domineer over him? - John Locke (2nd Treatise, sect 57)
#132430 - 09/07/15 02:42 PM Re: Friedersdorf nails it again [Re: Derid]  
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You're pointing out that the race baiting/white shaming has gotten to all time ridiculous levels. What used to be considered the goal, everyone getting along without seeing color, has turned into racism and recognizing and celebrating any/all colors but white is the new goal.

Sini is claiming that you have no idea what you're talking about.

And I'm merely pointing out that we've gone all the way from Sini's reference to southern lynchings to the execution of police and whites, while the media remain completely silent, except to harp on "micro-aggressions". Because heaven forbid a generation of entitled children get their feelings hurt, and never mind people being killed.


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#132432 - 09/07/15 03:18 PM Re: Friedersdorf nails it again [Re: Kaotic]  
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Originally Posted By: Kaotic

Sini is claiming that you have no idea what you're talking about.


Why are you speaking for me, especially when it is exactly opposite of what I stated so far in the thread?

If you are confused by "check your non-idiot privilege" phrase, let me deconstruct it for you. Derid is not an idiot, if I use *ism language, then being non-idiot is a bad thing, and one should be checked for it. Because we should be more empathetic toward idiots.

My point being, that a lot of "checking" is actually success-shaming or virtue-shaming.

Quote:
And I'm merely pointing out that we've gone all the way from Sini's reference to southern lynchings


Society could be cyclical. The magnitude of the eventual swing the other way will largely depend how overboard it goes at this point. When being "prosecuted" and "underprivileged" is thought after social status, you know we are close to the apex.

Last edited by Sini; 09/07/15 03:56 PM.

#132433 - 09/07/15 03:25 PM Re: Friedersdorf nails it again [Re: Derid]  
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I'm not speaking for you. I'm attempting to answer Derid's question by explaining what I was thinking.

I completely misunderstood your post Sini. My bad. I think we may be having some language problems. If you're agreeing with him, why call it "wrongthink"?


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#132434 - 09/07/15 03:28 PM Re: Friedersdorf nails it again [Re: Derid]  
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edit* lulz for keeping browser window open then afking

As for "wrongthink" he was just being sarcastic and making fun of SJW terminology.

Last edited by Derid; 09/07/15 03:30 PM.

For who could be free when every other man's humour might domineer over him? - John Locke (2nd Treatise, sect 57)
#132435 - 09/07/15 03:39 PM Re: Friedersdorf nails it again [Re: Derid]  
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Historically, our society is very rich. We can devote energy to feeling bad about under-contributing members of the society. When large-scale disaster happens, this will go out of the window.

You can temporarily get ahead with the existing *ism approach of shaming to get excess capacity/wealth transferred, but once that excessive capacity is gone, this will stop. Nobody going to cut into basic needs to keep these transfers going. Meanwhile reinforced tribal behavior (e.g. 'my people', 'white privilege') is at all-time dangerous levels and everyone is acutely aware who is US and THEM.

White paranoia in US is already at ridiculous levels, when I lived in Texas living in a gated community with armed guards and patrol dogs was the norm above certain income. You bet it was 90% white, because that is who can afford to pay the fees. This was some years ago, I imagine it only got worse. You can tell people to publicly act in a certain way, but you put their kids, lives on the line, and you bet all of this 'displays of virtuous behavior' will go out of the window.

Imagine if Katrina-level event happens nationwide. Do you think that somehow non-white populations won't suffer disproportionate share of negative consequences? Do you think reinforcing tribal boundaries going to make it better or worse?


#132437 - 09/07/15 04:19 PM Re: Friedersdorf nails it again [Re: Sini]  
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Originally Posted By: Sini
Historically, our society is very rich. We can devote energy to feeling bad about under-contributing members of the society. When large-scale disaster happens, this will go out of the window.

You can temporarily get ahead with the existing *ism approach of shaming to get excess capacity/wealth transferred, but once that excessive capacity is gone, this will stop. Nobody going to cut into basic needs to keep these transfers going. Meanwhile reinforced tribal behavior (e.g. 'my people', 'white privilege') is at all-time dangerous levels and everyone is acutely aware who is US and THEM.

White paranoia in US is already at ridiculous levels, when I lived in Texas living in a gated community with armed guards and patrol dogs was the norm above certain income. You bet it was 90% white, because that is who can afford to pay the fees. This was some years ago, I imagine it only got worse. You can tell people to publicly act in a certain way, but you put their kids, lives on the line, and you bet all of this 'displays of virtuous behavior' will go out of the window.

Imagine if Katrina-level event happens nationwide. Do you think that somehow non-white populations won't suffer disproportionate share of negative consequences? Do you think reinforcing tribal boundaries going to make it better or worse?


"Those" white people are tending to already see themselves as a different tribe, apart from the other white tribes.

That "Coming Apart" book we talked about a while back went into that pretty in depth.

Typical classism aside, an even bigger worry is poor and mid level socioeconomic white people getting tribal. This is what we are seeing with Trump. People tend to forget that there are far more poor white people than poor colored people. That colored people are poor in a higher ratio is of course talked about a lot.

As you say, when times get tough then its easy for tribalism to come out. Forget Katrina level disaster, economically speaking the past decade has been disastrous for 40% of white people and they are starting to get agitated and looking for scapegoats instead of solutions.


For who could be free when every other man's humour might domineer over him? - John Locke (2nd Treatise, sect 57)
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