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#122162 - 10/21/13 03:48 PM Re: Shutddown [Re: Derid]  
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Originally Posted By: Derid
Its credibility has taken a huge hit the past 6 months.


No, your connection to reality took a huge hit in the past 6 months. Politifact is doing just fine.

public service/

To my surprise I watched you descend into Red-like level of disconnect. At least you are still civil. I am being honest when stating that I am concerned how badly poisoned your sources of information are. This is not our usual disagreement over intentions or interpretation, we moved over arguing (and denying in your case) factual and well-documented events. Re-evaluate where you get your information before you wake up at the birther rally and wonder where it all went wrong.

/public service


#122164 - 10/21/13 04:00 PM Re: Shutddown [Re: Sini]  
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This coming from someone who openly advocates closed, secretive govt with no standards of accountability as long as his "team" are the corrupt fools pulling shenanigans?

In any case, you should check your reading comprehension - I did not state it was true.. but simply if it was, the Dems are in for a lot of blowback. I have no objective way of knowing as of yet. (be damned if I send my personal info to Obamacare site, one of the things Politifact got wrong is they endorsed the idea that Obamacare site has strong privacy protections when the opposite itself is true. They think that just not storing the info on the site itself constitutes such protection which is bunk)

Politifact has made about 10 egregious errors/misdirections in recent memory. Enough that I dont take what they have to say at face value.


For who could be free when every other man's humour might domineer over him? - John Locke (2nd Treatise, sect 57)
#122166 - 10/21/13 04:45 PM Re: Shutddown [Re: Sini]  
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They are actually technically 100% correct with privacy protection, website-privacy-protection and actually protecting your privacy are two different things. Website privacy protection usually means secure channel plus following privacy and disclosure policy they state. Nothing more nothing less.
----------
As to rest of your reply - be careful not to break your paddle with all this backpedaling you are doing. Yes, you have no objective way of knowing as of yet, so it is all empty demagoguery.

If you feel like just trolling with chain letters "Ron Pal thread is -----> way".


#122167 - 10/21/13 05:42 PM Re: Shutddown [Re: Derid]  
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Originally Posted By: Derid
Originally Posted By: "Random Internet Dude"
"I actually made it through this morning at 8:00 A.M. I have a preexisting condition (Type 1 Diabetes) and my income base was 45K-55K annually I chose tier 2 "Silver Plan" and my monthly premiums came out to $597.00 with $13,988 yearly deductible!!! There is NO POSSIBLE way that I can afford this so I "opt-out" and chose to continue along with no insurance. I received an email tonight at 5:00 P.M. informing me that my fine would be $4,037 and could be attached to my yearly income tax return. Then you make it to the "REPERCUSSIONS PORTION" for "non-payment" of yearly fine. First, your drivers license will be suspended until paid, and if you go 24 consecutive months with "Non-Payment" and you happen to be a home owner, you will have a federal tax lien placed on your home. You can agree to give your bank information so that they can easy "Automatically withdraw" your "penalties" weekly, bi-weekly or monthly! This by no means is "Free" or even "Affordable""



http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/...gle-obamacare-/

Originally Posted By: "Politifact for the lazy"
Many readers sent us a Facebook post that went viral and has since been circulated by chain-email.

• "There is NO POSSIBLE way that I can afford this so I ‘opt-out’ and chose to continue along with no insurance."

According to a spokesman for the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services, the agency that runs the marketplace, this is not how the system works: "There's no way for people to complete the online application and then affirmatively ‘opt out’ at the end. They would simply close the website or not enroll in a plan."

• "I received an email tonight at 5:00 P.M. informing me" about the fines I would face.

This is wrong on several levels. First, the system would not send any user an email if they failed to complete an application. Second, any fines would be calculated as part of the user’s overall income tax form 1040 -- they wouldn’t be sent as a bill. And third, any taxes would be owed by April 15, 2015 -- a year and a half from now. Someone being assessed a tax penalty by the Internal Revenue Service in early October doesn’t even make any sense, since the applicant has many weeks to find another insurance plan and avoid a penalty.

• "My fine would be $4,037."

This number is way out of line. Under the law, the penalty fee in 2014 is 1 percent of your yearly income or $95 per person for the year, whichever is higher. The fee increases every year. In 2016 it is 2.5 percent of income or $695 per person, whichever is higher.

If we are to take this Facebook user’s claims at face value -- that his "income base was 45K-55K annually"-- and if he has no dependents, he would not have to pay any more than $550, by 2015. To pay a penalty of $4,037 in 2014, you would need to be making making more than $403,700 a year.

• "Your drivers license will be suspended until paid."

CMS told PolitiFact that nobody’s driver's license will be suspended as a noncompliance penalty under the Affordable Care Act. Nothing in the law mentions that as a penalty, and driver’s licenses are administered by state governments.

• "If you go 24 consecutive months with ‘Non-Payment’ and you happen to be a home owner, you will have a federal tax lien placed on your home."

A Treasury Department spokesperson confirmed that the law specifically bars the IRS from using their normal means of collecting unpaid taxes, including the use of liens and levy.

According to the law, the government "shall not (i) file notice of lien with respect to any property of a taxpayer by reason of any failure to pay the penalty imposed by this section, or (ii) levy on any such property with respect to such failure.’’

Instead, the only thing the IRS can do to collect fines is to subtract it from any tax refund you qualify for. If you aren’t due a refund, all the IRS can do is send you a letter.

Another section of the health care law protects citizens from any other form of punishment. "In the case of any failure by a taxpayer to timely pay any penalty (…) such taxpayer shall not be subject to any criminal prosecution or penalty," it says.

• "You can agree to give your bank information so that they can easy ‘Automatically withdraw’ your ‘penalties’ weekly, bi-weekly or monthly!"

Don’t take online banking advice from a Facebook post. The Treasury Department warns citizens not to hand out bank information online.




#122169 - 10/21/13 06:32 PM Re: Shutddown [Re: Sini]  
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I had read that, who knows how it will play out.

/shrug , not backpedaling to point out your typical lack of reading comprehension. You tend to read what you want to read , not what is actually written which is about half the reason you lose almost all the debates.

The point of the post was that many people are reporting major sticker shock. Whether its all made-up or whether the theme holds true for the general public remains to be seen. Time will tell, and I wouldnt put all my eggs in the politifact basket were I you.

As for the privacy issue, you made my point. Politifact taglines sell the idea that there are privacy protections. Simply based on the fact that the connection is (presumably) encrypted and data isnt stored long term on the site. The big leaks are in who it goes to, and to some degree how it goes. And how it is processed by said receiving entities. Your info goes to too many entities. The way politifact danced around this issue and used specious quotes to sell the idea that your privacy is protected is disingenuous at best.


For who could be free when every other man's humour might domineer over him? - John Locke (2nd Treatise, sect 57)
#122170 - 10/21/13 06:36 PM Re: Shutddown [Re: Kaotic]  
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Originally Posted By: Kaotic
You are such a disingenuous ass. You know good and damn well we are no where near "default" but keep playing thst record. It has served you wo well over the pastcouple months. Perhaps the folks who give you this barbage to regurgitate will pat you on the back for your steadfast adherence to their agenda.

*but since your brought it up, fucking yes this administration is responsible for the mess we arein. They promised to change things and yet they are following the same progressive agenda of the Bush admin. Congrats. Hows that hope and change workin out for ya?


I love it!

I hope you didnt wake up with a horrible hang over and find out you got gay married in Vegas :-)



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#122171 - 10/21/13 07:00 PM Re: Shutddown [Re: Sini]  
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Some more sticker shock. Since Sinij didnt seem to appreciate the random anecdotal example that fits the profile of something he himself would post.

Chico Tribune:
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2013-...health-coverage

It should be noted that Chicago Tribune is of course extremely pro Obama.

California San Jose Mercury News

http://www.mercurynews.com/nation-world/ci_24248486/obamacares-winners-and-losers-bay-area

Another pro-Obama paper


Sn Fran Gate

http://www.sfgate.com/health/article/Health-insurance-shoppers-suffer-sticker-shock-4872701.php

Another extremely pro Obama paper on sticker shock

----------------------

Of course there are tons of other articles floating about , but since you only accept info from extremely proven pro-Obama sources I stuck with those.


For who could be free when every other man's humour might domineer over him? - John Locke (2nd Treatise, sect 57)
#122172 - 10/21/13 07:31 PM Re: Shutddown [Re: Derid]  
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Originally Posted By: Derid
The point of the post was that many people are reporting major sticker shock. Whether its all made-up or whether the theme holds true for the general public remains to be seen.


This is better way to state this issue, and I actually agree. ACA is not as affordable as many would like it to be. I suspect that subsidies will be expanded to compensate (and that would be a very bad thing for containing government spending) and taxed raised to generate revenue.

Quote:
The way politifact danced around this issue and used specious quotes to sell the idea that your privacy is protected is disingenuous at best.


It isn't "dancing" but rather going with technical definition. You could argue that technical definition is misunderstood and should be explained, but instead your point was that they lied. They did not lie.


#122173 - 10/21/13 08:17 PM Re: Shutddown [Re: Sini]  
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I did not say they were lying as in telling a direct falsehood. Disingenuous used as here would be synonymous with not being candid, and not fully going into the topic of privacy. If a lie, one by omission.

Politifact often does more fully examine an issue to give an overall rating. Quite often they have a "yes this is technically true/false in this regard.... BUT"

Not in this case. They simply had a tagline of "there is privacy protection" or something along those lines, while carefully addressing the issue almost entirely along lines of web-security procedure in relation to some ecommerce sites.

They are now cherry picking when and where to go into more detail and a broader examination of issues, and as a result utilizing their reputation as assembling most of the *relevant* facts to a discussion to give a false impression.

Thus, I have been giving them large black marks.

They also appear to be heavy on the support-wagon for Obamacare and Common Core.

They have also been outright wrong a few times on some issues, but I will only bother to examine that here if it becomes relevant.


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#122178 - 10/21/13 11:49 PM Re: Shutddown [Re: Derid]  
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You do realize that your furious backpedaling on another issue in the single thread set a new kind of record? You are not winning any prizes in this thread, so I guess it is time for you declare yet another victory over reason and proceed to rest on laurels of your flawless record.

"They are now cherry picking when and where to go into more detail" reads a lot like "I don't like when they disagree with my side".


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