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NYT: What happens to families who are denied abortions?

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With a team of Czech colleagues, David enrolled 220 of the women who were twice denied the abortion they sought and 220 women who never pursued an abortion. For the next 35 years, he followed their children, making regular inquiries and comparisons between the two groups.

The first results examined the children at age 9. David reported that the children born of unwanted pregnancies had significant disadvantages. They were breast-fed for shorter periods; were slightly but consistently overweight; had more instances of acute illness and lower grades in Czech. They seemed less capable in socially demanding situations; they were less popular among peers and teachers and even, if sons, with their own mothers. David concluded that “the child of a woman denied abortion appears to be born into a potentially handicapping situation.”

In the course of interviewing the mothers about their children, David’s research suggested that whether the mother wanted the child was a significant predictor of the child’s future negative qualities, independent of the effect of the mother’s personality.


Anti-abortion crowd's interest in this only up until birth. This article is an overview, based on scientific studies, of what happens after birth to unwanted children.

I think anti-abortion crowd has to advocate and facilitate adoptions, otherwise they are hypocritical in their "think of the children" outlook.


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So, your argument then is that people who struggle in life or are not as happy or well developed (by whose standard?) as others are better off dead.


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No, my argument is and always was that no child is always better than unwanted child. Anyone wanting to stop any abortion should be forced to pay child support to these mothers that get their life wrecked by pregnancy.

Here is a possible idea...

Abortions all the way up to viability paid by Federal Government. Anyone. Anytime. No questions asked.

...but...

After 18 weeks or so expected mother has to offer baby for an adoption. If home is found, contract is signed where all medical costs related to birth are covered and then baby is transferred to a willing qualified parents.

If no parents willing to adopt - then abortion is given green light.


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Originally Posted By: Sini
No, my argument is and always was that no child is always better than unwanted child.
Right, that's what I said, its better to have been killed than to suffer some disadvantage in life. Can you not see that's what you're saying? Just remember next time you're feeling bad because your life is too hard, you could always just end your life and you'd be better off, by your logic.


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And again, as with all abortion discussions it simply comes down to whether the abortion is taking a life or preventing one. If a fetus is a human in physical and metaphysical terms then abortion is logically no different than any other murder. If a fetus is not a human , then its not murder regardless of whether or not it would become a human left unattended.

Obviously the debate on when precisely that change occurs will not be settled any time soon.

For what its worth, I actually think Sinij is on to something here. If someone is going to try and force someone to carry a fetus to term, particularly at an early stage.. I see no reason they shouldnt be willing to take responsibility for it.


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Lifes hard=kill yourself

Now that's some progressive logic. I guess when you're not a fetus and old enough to decide for yourself that it's better to live. Rather than having someone else decide that your life will be to hard and death would be far better than life. If progressives followed their own logic the world population wouldn't be where it is.

Oh no, I have to work hard in order to get something... WHY LIVE! Silly progressive, LIFE is always worth living!

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It isn't just one life. You have to also consider mother.

For example, would you volunteer to live in misery and poverty, give up ability to work, give up educational opportunities? Why not? This is not unlike what you are asking from single women when you deny abortions.

Start talking about how to make women not want/need to have abortions (e.g. sex ed, social support) maybe you will be taken seriously when you also bring up abortions. As such, it is easy to make ideological statements when you have no skin in the game.


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Originally Posted By: Wolfgang
Lifes hard=kill yourself

Now that's some progressive logic. I guess when you're not a fetus and old enough to decide for yourself that it's better to live. Rather than having someone else decide that your life will be to hard and death would be far better than life. If progressives followed their own logic the world population wouldn't be where it is.

Oh no, I have to work hard in order to get something... WHY LIVE! Silly progressive, LIFE is always worth living!

Until a baby has developed a brain, it is just a tumor in a woman uterus.
And there's a big difference between suicide and never being born: in one case you can't regret anything. Are you against masturbation also? Or do you harvest all your semen and give it to some sperm bank as to not waste potential lives?


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Arkh, it is useless. They don't differentiate life as biological tissue and life as sentience. As soon as fertilization happens it is a human being. How? Power of prayer, how else!


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Originally Posted By: Arkh
Originally Posted By: Wolfgang
Lifes hard=kill yourself

Now that's some progressive logic. I guess when you're not a fetus and old enough to decide for yourself that it's better to live. Rather than having someone else decide that your life will be to hard and death would be far better than life. If progressives followed their own logic the world population wouldn't be where it is.

Oh no, I have to work hard in order to get something... WHY LIVE! Silly progressive, LIFE is always worth living!

Until a baby has developed a brain, it is just a tumor in a woman uterus.
And there's a big difference between suicide and never being born: in one case you can't regret anything. Are you against masturbation also? Or do you harvest all your semen and give it to some sperm bank as to not waste potential lives?

But it's a tumor that is growing into life, putting it that way. Sperm is just a seed that can only produce life when a female egg is fertilized. It's like having half the recipe to make something. Or to put it this way, If an atom were missing protons,neutron or electrons it wouldn't be an atom anymore. So As long as my seed doesn't fertilize and egg it's isn't growing a living being.

Just so you all know, I think a woman that was raped and wanted an abortion is up to her. However in saying that I think there's a certain amount of time to get it done. I DO NOT support late term abortions PERIOD! Only in very dire life threatening need should that EVER be done.

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