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#112964 - 01/16/13 02:00 AM Re: An Armed Society, is a politer Society [Re: Sini]  
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Originally Posted By: sini
Lets run for a moment with your theory that this is a directed campaign to undermine second amendment and disarm population.

Where is the money trail in this? Who profits from it?

On other hand, you can clearly see where NRA is getting paid.


Power. Its pretty simple. Currently the elites of society and Govt can get away with a lot.

Once the people are disarmed, they can get away with anything.

While I doubt that the elections would become totally rigged, and the mass abuses would start tomorrow - 10,15, 20 year timeframe is a completely different story.

Just look how much liberty was lost, how tattered our Constitutional protections have become in just the past decade compared to what they were 15 or even 20 years ago.

If this trend continues, and there is no reason to believe it will not.. in another 2 decades anything we will be in an extremely bad place indeed.

Liberty is hard to gain, and easy to lose. We never gain anything by giving up our liberty. No matter how much the media and govt mouthpieces claim we will gain beforehand.


For who could be free when every other man's humour might domineer over him? - John Locke (2nd Treatise, sect 57)
#112988 - 01/16/13 10:22 PM Re: An Armed Society, is a politer Society [Re: Derid]  
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Meh.

If the silliness starts and they make owning certain firearms or accessories illegal, I guess I'll just become a criminal. ( Like most of the residents of my State and adjoining states )

I'm not registering or removing said items regardless of anyone elses thoughts on the matter.


#112993 - 01/17/13 12:58 AM Re: An Armed Society, is a politer Society [Re: Sini]  
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Originally Posted By: sini
Quote:
If you disagree with this, can you give me any reasonable explanation as to why alcohol and tobacco are still very much legal to use considering how much they contribute to the overall death toll in this country on a yearly basis ?


Alcohol and tobacco are mostly self-inflicted. Bad moonshine aside, you never hear of alcohol killing multiple people.

Guns fatalities cannot be compared to alcohol and tobacco deaths because volunteer self-inflicted vs. violent attack by others categorical distinction.


Plane crashes are violent and not self inflicted.





#113001 - 01/17/13 01:43 AM Re: An Armed Society, is a politer Society [Re: Derid]  
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Originally Posted By: Derid

Once the people are disarmed, they can get away with anything.


Unsurprisingly, my take on this is foil


#113002 - 01/17/13 01:46 AM Re: An Armed Society, is a politer Society [Re: Derid]  
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Quote:
Just look how much liberty was lost, how tattered our Constitutional protections have become in just the past decade compared to what they were 15 or even 20 years ago.


Yes, coincidentally some guns laws lapsed/were repealed and overall control was lessened. I know this is not an evidence of correlation, but it can be considered as evidence against negative correlation (lack of guns due to control <-> personal freedoms).


#113003 - 01/17/13 01:46 AM Re: An Armed Society, is a politer Society [Re: Sini]  
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Originally Posted By: sini
Unsurprisingly, my take on this is foil
Which actually is surprising considering my assumption of your heritage.


#113009 - 01/17/13 02:39 AM Re: An Armed Society, is a politer Society [Re: Kaotic]  
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I stated and restated my position, if government is set to forcibly and violently oppress us, then simple handguns won't cut it.

Extrajudicial assassinations of US citizens and indefinite detention should be much bigger concern here than unjustified fear that government want to take away your arms to oppress you.


#113011 - 01/17/13 02:56 AM Re: An Armed Society, is a politer Society [Re: Sini]  
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Originally Posted By: sini
I stated and restated my position, if government is set to forcibly and violently oppress us, then simple handguns won't cut it.
Which is part of the reason all of us are advocating against a society where citizens are only allowed to own handguns...
Originally Posted By: sini
Extrajudicial assassinations of US citizens and indefinite detention should be much bigger concern here than unjustified fear that government want to take away your arms to oppress you.
You don't think that a government that will do this will also attempt to oppress us? Hmm.


#113013 - 01/17/13 03:15 AM Re: An Armed Society, is a politer Society [Re: Kaotic]  
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Originally Posted By: Kaotic
Originally Posted By: sini
I stated and restated my position, if government is set to forcibly and violently oppress us, then simple handguns won't cut it.
Which is part of the reason all of us are advocating against a society where citizens are only allowed to own handguns...


...and drones, tanks, ballistic missiles, patriot missiles, spy satellites, RPGs, fighter jets?

In that case, I am on board with you. I always wanted to buy one of these:



I probably can't afford it, but do you think they'd do zero down lease?

Plus your side keep telling me there is no deadliness difference between a handgun and a semi-auto rifle, so what can you do with one that you can't with a handgun?


Quote:
Originally Posted By: sini
Extrajudicial assassinations of US citizens and indefinite detention should be much bigger concern here than unjustified fear that government want to take away your arms to oppress you.
You don't think that a government that will do this will also attempt to oppress us? Hmm.


There is no also, these are independent events.

Last edited by sini; 01/17/13 03:22 AM.

#113014 - 01/17/13 03:33 AM Re: An Armed Society, is a politer Society [Re: Kaotic]  
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Originally Posted By: Mein Kampf
The state must declare the child to be the most precious treasure of the people. As long as the government is perceived as working for the benefit of the children, the people will happily endure almost any curtailment of liberty and almost any deprivation.


Now wave your tinfoil hat at this all you like, but if history has proven anything to be absolutely true, it is that people that don't learn from the mistakes of the past are doomed to repeat them.

Now, it has become popular for people to point fingers at and demonize the gun control put in place in Nazi Germany, but many people get it badly wrong. Just as egregious though are the people that defend Nazi Germany's gun control laws by saying things like they "actually facilitated the keeping and bearing of arms by German citizens by eliminating or ameliorating restrictive laws which had been enacted by the government preceding his: a left-center government which had contained a number of Jews." While this statement appears true on the surface, all you have to do is actually read the highlights of the 1938 German Weapons Act and then see what followed to know exactly why many people in the U.S. (should) fear such regulations.

Yes, the 1938 Act did make it easier for German citizens to own firearms, especially long arms, compared to how difficult it was in the 1920's, but it still placed heavy restrictions on the purchase, sale, manufacturing, and ownership of said firearms. As well, it specifically exempted "trusted" party members and government workers. Once the act was revised to disarm the Jews, it became very clear what the goal was. And if you need to know what happened the very next day, go ahead and read about Kristallnacht.

So, if you want to let the murder of these children, which was a tragedy, be the catalyst that sparks the government into sweeping gun regulation or outright bans, so be it. Just beware that you are doing exactly what history warns us never to do.

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